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Thread: Spillover trickle

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    Spillover trickle

    We have a 4.5' wide spa spillover. After finishing our build, the spillover was a full sheer waterfall. After a couple of weeks, it now trickles under the spillover and down the glass tile front of the spa as soon as the pool is turned on. As soon as we splash it by hand, it goes to full sheer waterfall. I've tried maxing pump speed for priming and even for running with no luck. We've gone from chlorine to salt and back to chlorine over the past 30-60 days as we were going through new plaster startup and now doing a refinish (no point in continuing to waste salt).

    Our spillover has a nice sharp edge, not rounded.

    Is this just water pressure related? Maybe I need to clean my filter more frequently if I want this spillover effect? Could the water chemistry impact it? Viscosity? It seemed to do it better with salt (or maybe I'm crazy?)

    Any other thoughts? I figured I'd ask now while we are refinishing later this week. Thanks!


    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Clean your filter. You're flow rate has slowed down. Happens all the time to me - clean filter and the spillover goes at even low speed; dirty filter and the spillover needs a kick to get going.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Grumpie,

    I looked at a pic of your spillover and it appears to come over a ledge..

    So my question to you is... is there a sawcut or groove on the bottom side of the ledge??

    I ask, because I believe that surface tension will cause the water to wrap around the ledge and back to the tile.

    The sawcut/groove keeps this from happening.

    My three "rockport" waterfalls all have this groove..

    I believe that this is why you can splash it and cause it to start performing the way you want..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    Clean your filter. You're flow rate has slowed down. Happens all the time to me - clean filter and the spillover goes at even low speed; dirty filter and the spillover needs a kick to get going.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yea. I'll give it a shot. We have the CC420. Should I be cleaning it once a month this early on? I know for sure at first for plaster dust, but surprised I need to do it again.


    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpiebk View Post
    Yea. I'll give it a shot. We have the CC420. Should I be cleaning it once a month this early on? I know for sure at first for plaster dust, but surprised I need to do it again.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The first few months of life a cart filter with a new plaster finish needs cleaning. After a few months, it'll go much, much longer between cleanings.

    As always, wait for your pressure to rise 25% above clean pressure.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Grumpie,

    I looked at a pic of your spillover and it appears to come over a ledge..

    So my question to you is... is there a sawcut or groove on the bottom side of the ledge??

    I ask, because I believe that surface tension will cause the water to wrap around the ledge and back to the tile.

    The sawcut/groove keeps this from happening.

    My three "rockport" waterfalls all have this groove..

    I believe that this is why you can splash it and cause it to start performing the way you want..

    Jim R.
    No sir. When you say bottom, you mean underside right?




    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by JoyfulNoise View Post
    The first few months of life a cart filter with a new plaster finish needs cleaning. After a few months, it'll go much, much longer between cleanings.

    As always, wait for your pressure to rise 25% above clean pressure.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    15psi is clean pressure. 18-19 doesn't seem like a drastic change, does it?


    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpiebk View Post
    15psi is clean pressure. 18-19 doesn't seem like a drastic change, does it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's a 20-26% change in pressure. Yes, that is enough to trigger a cleaning. PBs (bad) advice is to wait until your filter pressure rises 10psi...you know what TFP thinks about PB advice, right?


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Yep... Right where you have nothing, I have a 1/4" x 1/4" groove all the way across. About 1/4 to 1/2" back from the lip..

    There is a name for it but I can't get it off the tip of my tongue...

    Obviously water flow has a lot to do with it, but it seems to me your problem is that it does not work consistently at the same water flow..

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Spillover trickle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    Yep... Right where you have nothing, I have a 1/4" x 1/4" groove all the way across. About 1/4 to 1/2" back from the lip..

    There is a name for it but I can't get it off the tip of my tongue...

    Obviously water flow has a lot to do with it, but it seems to me your problem is that it does not work consistently at the same water flow..

    Jim R.
    My spillway is made out of tile. No groove but there's enough surface roughness on my tile to make the water flow slightly turbulent. The turbulence breaks the surface tension and starts the flow. However, when the filter is dirty (as it is now after a year without cleaning it ), it still stalls. No matter what kind of surface you have, flow is the king variable...


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Thank you gentlemen...the grooves makes sense, but that's beyond my pay grade. I'll clean the filter and report back. After refinish.


    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Ok jim I'm curious as to what you mean. I'm doing a stacked stone spill over and I'm going to have gunite at the end of the week and I want to make sure the water flows well from the spa into the pool. When you get a chance could you post a pic, I want to make sure i get the groves you speak off


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Will your Spillway is going to be a different style. You aren't worried about creating a sheet of water.
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Oh!
    So mine will produce a nice waterfall off the spa into the pool? And is there anything I should know about before they gunite? I want it to be slanted so it can have several layers of stone or quartzite.
    And sorry if I kinda high jacked the thread, please forgive me


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Isn't this what you are doing?

    2070514a6568ae489951f66006b60ac7.jpg

    As long as there is water flowing, gravity will do it's thing
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    That's exactly it and thanks for the info. That makes sense, sometimes I just see terms or different things for pools and I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything lol. I'm like a little kid who doesn't want to be left out. But you saved the day again sir
    Much appreciated.
    Is quartzite the best stone that will last the longest and stay the cleanest ? If not what should I consider? I may even try to get one or two more layers into the spill way


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Quartzite is a good choice. It's limestone, sandstone and some types of flagstone that should be avoided.
    -Brian-

    Pool/Spa, Pentair Equipment

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Thanks again sir!


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Will, here is what mine looks like. We have a sheet of water vs a running waterfall like you are planning.



    Brian - UNDER CONSTRUCTION: 17K gal SW Gunite IG. 17'x23'(w/shelf)x34'. 650sf. 114' perim. 3.5'-5' depth sports pool. 7'x11' sun shelf, 6'x8' spa. Intelliflow VSP, IC60 SWCG, CC420 filter, 4 LEDs (2 Globrite and 2 Intellibrite). Hayward 140K BTU heat pump. Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation. Ivory travertine deck. 8"X16" travertine coping. NPT lightwaves Aquamarine spa tile and marker tiles. Undecided on plaster/pebble finish.

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    Re: Spillover trickle

    Grump I love your pool and landscaping, it all came together extremely well. You have an oasis in your backyard


    current build<--free form gunite 34x21 18k gallons 4ft-7ft deep,Pentair 3HP VSP, wisperflo 2hp, 520 cartridge filter, 400k heater, ez touch 8 with screen logic, ic40 swg. 4ft sheer decent, 2 led deck jets, 5 globrite leds,rock spa waterfall. Mocha travertine deck, noche coping. Tropics blue custom mix with LOTS of beads and shells

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