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Thread: Thoughts on new heater?

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    Thoughts on new heater?

    Hi everyone, my heater is or has been on the fritz for some time. It's pretty old and probably near end of life, but also probably serviceable. It's an older Hayward, dont' have the model offhand.

    I wanted to know what I could expect to pay for a new heater and installation (assuming same spot, no new significant routing/plumbing, gas or wiring.)

    We really don't use the heater often and in fact haven't used it in the 3 yrs we've owned the house. However, I might consider using it if (a) I could open the pool earlier in the year and close later and (b) if it didnt cost an arm and a leg to warm the pool up occasionally.

    I just bought a new variable Pentair pump last year as well as an entirely new filter, so my heater is the only "old" thing presently.

    • What can I expect to pay for a long lasting heater?
    • How much does it cost roughly (I can provide gas cost if you know the formula) to raise temperature 1 degree in a 32k gallon pool?
    • Does it make sense to buy a higher end super efficient model if I only intend to use for early/late season the majority of the time?
    • Should I just try to service my existing heater and keep it going


    Thanks!
    Pool Type: In Ground, Liner. Shape: Free form/kidney
    Size: 32,000 gallons
    Filter/Pump: (2016) DE Hayward 4820 / (2016) Pentair VST 2
    Heater: (2018) Raypak 406A 400k BTU
    Location: NJ. No tree/leaves overhead. Limited shrubs near/over waterfall feature

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    First. let me say that I'm not a Pro. But have read up on this somewhat - and I have a heat pump (and a gas heater) now.
    With that said, I would suggest you look at a heat pump if you just want to raise temp a few degrees and start swimming sooner. Do you have access to power (220V 40A) near the pool pad?
    32,000 gallons is a big pool. I think you will need a lot of energy to heat it (if you shut off heater at night the pool will cool down again, so you either heat at night (then shut off pump/heater in the daytime) and then lose some heat during day, or heat during the day and cover pool at night, or you run the heater 24/7. The cover will save you the most $ but is a pain to deal with every night at pool closing.
    Heat Pumps are very efficient. However a heatpump is more expensive than a gas heater. Figure on $2,500 to $3,000 plus installation (maybe another $500 depending on where your electrical panel is, and with the plumbing to the heater).
    See Heat Pump Swimming Pool Heaters | Department of Energy
    20K gal In-ground pool with raised Spa overflowing into pool; two Jandy Sheer Descent waterfalls; Pentair IntelliTouch i7+3, IntelliChlor, IntelliPH, 3 SAM/SAL lights, Pentair FNS60Plus filter, two 1.0 HP WhiperFlow pumps, Jandy/Compool auto-valves, RayPak Heatpump, RayPak 406A LP spa heater, Polaris 360 PS Cleaner. Patio and deck lighting by Volt; Volt 600W landscaping transformer; Webber grilling station

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    In New Jersey I am not sure a heat pump is going to let you open any earlier if you are wanting to heat the pool.
    Over 30 years in the pool business
    We build vinyl, fiberglass, stainless steel pools
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Quote Originally Posted by swimcmp View Post
    In New Jersey I am not sure a heat pump is going to let you open any earlier if you are wanting to heat the pool.
    sorry, i am probably using the wrong terminology. I said heat pump, but i think i just mean "heater" as in a gas heater. I believe that heat pump may actually be a different device, but unless that was an economical solution, I was really referring to gas heaters (aka the big boxes)
    Pool Type: In Ground, Liner. Shape: Free form/kidney
    Size: 32,000 gallons
    Filter/Pump: (2016) DE Hayward 4820 / (2016) Pentair VST 2
    Heater: (2018) Raypak 406A 400k BTU
    Location: NJ. No tree/leaves overhead. Limited shrubs near/over waterfall feature

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    A heat pump is a pool heater. They take the heat from the outside air and put it in your pool using what amounts to a central A/C unit. For your size pool you would need a big heat pump. They are very economical to run but they have draw backs.

    If you have natural gas available then thats probably your best option. You could probably get a new 400kBTU gas heater installed for around 3k. Maybe more depending on who you buy the heater from. New gas heaters are around 2k online.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    I just had mine replaced. $ 2,900 from a pool co I trust (went through 3 others before I found them years ago heh)

    I would HIGHLY recommend you go with a Raypak. Less parts / simpler design / easier to repair and many of us here have them.
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Quote Originally Posted by borjis View Post
    I just had mine replaced. $ 2,900 from a pool co I trust (went through 3 others before I found them years ago heh)

    I would HIGHLY recommend you go with a Raypak. Less parts / simpler design / easier to repair and many of us here have them.
    thanks, so it sounds like I Am looking at $3k when all is said and done..... i was hoping to be half that, but sounds like heaters cost way more than pool pumps!

    so how much does it cost in natural gas (approximately) to warm a pool from say like 67 to 72 degrees? (5 degrees) assuming an air temperature in between the two and 32k gallons? Im not trying to be too specific, i just want to know does it cost like $100 each time in gas, $5? $50?
    Pool Type: In Ground, Liner. Shape: Free form/kidney
    Size: 32,000 gallons
    Filter/Pump: (2016) DE Hayward 4820 / (2016) Pentair VST 2
    Heater: (2018) Raypak 406A 400k BTU
    Location: NJ. No tree/leaves overhead. Limited shrubs near/over waterfall feature

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    CJadamec's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    5 degrees temp rise will take about 15 therm or 1500 cubic feet of gas. Assuming you are around 10 dollars per thousand cubic feet of gas that's 15 bucks every time you warm the pool up 5 degrees. If I did the math right.
    Chuck-
    15x30 AG, Pentair Superflo VS, 19" sand filter, TF-100 test kit
    Aqua Comfort ACT750 heat pump / 6x20 ground mount solar panel / DIY automation

    Photos of 2016 Build, Inside Your Breaker Panel, Free Copy of 2017 NEC code
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Quote Originally Posted by ionizer View Post
    thanks, so it sounds like I Am looking at $3k when all is said and done..... i was hoping to be half that, but sounds like heaters cost way more than pool pumps!

    so how much does it cost in natural gas (approximately) to warm a pool from say like 67 to 72 degrees? (5 degrees) assuming an air temperature in between the two and 32k gallons? Im not trying to be too specific, i just want to know does it cost like $100 each time in gas, $5? $50?
    I bought a Raypak 400k natural gas heater with cupro nickle (for Salt pool) for $2250 delivered. They sell through dealers mostly....don't buy them online. Raypak is highly regarded around here as one of the best.
    Not sure what your install would cost....depends on who you know.

    Natural Gas is the way to do in your area.
    18'x36' vinyl - 24k gal - Intelliflo 3hp VSP - Pentair C&C 420 cartridge filter - IC40 Salt - EasyTouch 8 - ScreenLogic - Raypak 406btu NG heater - Intellibrite 5G ligths - 4 deck jets - sheer descent - X-Stream Slide 2 - TF100 kit - opened spring 2017

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Quote Originally Posted by ionizer View Post
    thanks, so it sounds like I Am looking at $3k when all is said and done..... i was hoping to be half that, but sounds like heaters cost way more than pool pumps!
    Indeed. I knew I had to get a new heater eventually, it was WAY old.

    What happened is I did not drain it in time during this years major snow storm, so the heat exchanger was busted from freeze damage.

    They said it would cost $ 1,600 to replace the exchanger. Where an entire new Raypak heater cost $ 100 less...go figure.

    The rest was for install.

    Lesson learned: I'll be draining the heater and other equipment every December from now on!
    16x32 IG Vinyl, 13,000 Gals. Hayward S-244T sand filter, SP2810X15 pump
    (1.5 HP motor) Raypak PR266AEN (266k btu) gas heater. TF-100 Test Kit.
    Dolphin E10 Cleaning Robot.

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    TxBwana's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    I'm getting a new 400k BTU gas heater installed along with my pebble surface for my pool. Quoted $2900 for the heater installed.
    15k IG gunite, built 1999, RiverBend Sandler, attached spa, Dolphin S200, Pentair Triton II sand filter, Wet Edge Prism Matrix in Constellation with extra ocean shells handcast, Pentair MasterTemp 400, my remodel

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Quote Originally Posted by TxBwana View Post
    I'm getting a new 400k BTU gas heater installed along with my pebble surface for my pool. Quoted $2900 for the heater installed.
    so if these raypak heaters are about $1500-$1900, why are the quotes for installation $2900? I mean $1000 for labor? That seems absurd. I could see if it was a brand new install, but if you are essentially swapping out a unit, maybe rejiggering a few pipes to fit, but probably spending 3 hours max, why does it cost $1k for installation?

    seems crazy

    im going to go to see what they quote me nearby

    so pentair heaters, no good? was hoping if i got it and already have the pump i might eventually get the screen logic stuff
    Pool Type: In Ground, Liner. Shape: Free form/kidney
    Size: 32,000 gallons
    Filter/Pump: (2016) DE Hayward 4820 / (2016) Pentair VST 2
    Heater: (2018) Raypak 406A 400k BTU
    Location: NJ. No tree/leaves overhead. Limited shrubs near/over waterfall feature

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Heaters will work with any automation. It is the pump and SWG that you want to be the same brand.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    Any heater will work with a Pentair automation system, you don't need it to be Pentair.

    Installation can be expensive if you need gas work done because, in most areas, that requires a licensed gas contractor. Also, you're paying, in part, for the warranty. Self installed units typically only have the most basic 60 day warranty.

    But back it up a bit - you need to determine what size heater you have now (in BTU/hr) and what size gas pipes are feeding it. If you have a 250kBTU/hr now, your gas line may not be able to handle something as large as a 400kBTU/hr heater. Knowing that will affect the cost of installation.


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

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    TxBwana's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    My quote is for a Pentair, not Raypak... so that could be the price difference.
    15k IG gunite, built 1999, RiverBend Sandler, attached spa, Dolphin S200, Pentair Triton II sand filter, Wet Edge Prism Matrix in Constellation with extra ocean shells handcast, Pentair MasterTemp 400, my remodel

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    Re: Thoughts on new heater?

    thanks, i think my current heater is 300k or 400k btu, but obviously will need to check
    Pool Type: In Ground, Liner. Shape: Free form/kidney
    Size: 32,000 gallons
    Filter/Pump: (2016) DE Hayward 4820 / (2016) Pentair VST 2
    Heater: (2018) Raypak 406A 400k BTU
    Location: NJ. No tree/leaves overhead. Limited shrubs near/over waterfall feature

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