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Thread: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Bought an older house last Fall with a large IG pool. Pump sort of broke early winter and I let it turn into a swamp since I didn't really know what I was doing. Now I've raked most of the crud out of it, and added lots of chlorine having no clue what I was doing. Its bluish green... maybe mostly blue, but still very cloudy (I can see about 2-3 feet deep depending on the day).

    Anyway, fast forward a few weeks and many hours on the internet, and I now have a decent idea of what I need to do. Got my test kit in this week and found out that my test strips I had been using were complete garbage. Due to the strips reading 0 stabilizer, I had been adding CYA. I finally stopped adding it when I figured the test strip wasnt measuring it. Test kits shows around 80-90 range on the CYA. So I was pretty much borderline on SLAM even being practical. That said, I went and bought 23 jugs of 121 oz 8.25% bleach.

    I figured my cloudiness had to do with combined chlorine. I could smell the chloromides as well. Test strip showed maxed out 10 on combined so I really didn't know. Luckily, the test kit was giving me about 1 ppm combined. At 90 CYA, and having to raise FC from 3 to 31, I was looking at 12 jugs of 8.25% to start off (based on pool math calculator). So far today, the FC is holding pretty good, but the CC is still around 1 ppm (hard to tell if it was completely clear after one drop, but it definitely was after the 2nd drop).

    My concern is that each time I test FC I end up using over 60 drops of the R-0871. I'm worried I will run out before I finish the SLAM process. Even with Amazon 2-day shipping, I wonder if I would have enough time for more to arrive. I didn't think about having such a high CYA causing me to need a extra testing chemicals.

    Is this normal to burn through so much of this stuff, if you are slamming with a high CYA? Any guesses as to how many days the SLAM may take from where I'm at now?

    Also, at what point should I add salt and turn the chlorinator back on? After SLAM, do I wait until the FC is at the target, then add salt? Or do I wait for it to get a little lower then add salt?

    Thanks in advance for any tips and info.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    pabeader's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0870 for I finish SLAM...

    During a SLAM, you can use a 5ml sample of water and treat each drop of 871 as 1ppm chlorine. Just be very careful that you have exactly 5ml.
    This is only good for use during SLAM since the accuracy is not as good.
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0870 for I finish SLAM...

    Thank you for that tip. I'll keep that in mind if I end up having to make it stretch.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Are you using the 10mL sample size or the 25mL size? I do 10mL and each drop is worth 0.5 (count drops, divide by 2) That might save you some reagents.

    Order some ASAP from TSTestkits.net and get the two day shipping.
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Welcome to TFP and thanks for doing lots of start-up reading

    If it were mine, I'd drain about 1/4 and refill to get the CYA down to 70 ppm. You can then test how much salt you have, and add depending on what's already there. It doesn't matter when, although you would lose some if you did it before a drain/refill. We would just say 90 for your 80/90 reading. That should be checked with a diluted test per point #9 in Pool School - CYA

    Note that shock level for 90 ppm CYA is 35 ppm FC per the Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart

    +1 to using a 5ml sample size for SLAM FC, and then switch back to 10 ml for OCLT when you get there, and +1 to ordering right away.

    What was pH adjusted to before starting the SLAM?
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Thanks for all of the advice. I have been measuring with the 10ml sample. I was targeting 31 FC, but going a little above to be safe. I'll assume 90 CYA and target 35 for the rest of the duration. My pH before I started was 7.4 to 7.5 (I was undecided which color matched closest).

    I will retest the CYA using the diluted method. I hope its not higher than 90...

    I ordered additional testing chems that should arrive tomorrow.

    I did have to add some water yesterday because it hasn't rained in awhile. Of course it rained 2-3" today. We have more big rain coming wednesday. I'm hoping with the rain and lots of backflushing that the CYA is getting diluted some. If it turns out to be higher than 90, I guess I will have no choice but to drain some. I would hate to think of the time and money wasted on CYA and tons of bleach, only to have to start all over again. I guess I'll consider it a tuition fee.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Don't worry, it's probably not a waste entirely because you're probably killing more algae than is growing back, so hopefully you're making headway. It's much faster and less total chlorine if you start well and maintain often to the proper shock level, but I bet you're still getting in front of it to some degree.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Yea, I'm definitely still getting in front of it. Although I feel like the lead changes back and forth quite a bit!
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    I did the diluted CYA test this afternoon and it was closer to 100 than to 90.

    My CC appears to be nearly gone at this point. It such a light tint of pink that I can't be sure its even tinted until I add a drop and notice a little difference. So does that mean I'm at about 0.5 CC?

    I need to do a strict overnight test. I end up adding chlorine in the late afternoon due to the schedule of life, so i'm guessing some burns off before dark. This morning I didn't even have time to test it, instead I dumped more bleach in and went to work. It was a warm sunny day today and the FC was down to around 26 ish by the late afternoon.

    My question at this point is, is there anything else that would keep the pool cloudy? Right now its blue, and the CC is almost 0 (from what I can tell). I'm supposed to continue SLAM until CC=0, Overnight Test passes, and the water is clear. IF the first two are true, but the pool is not clear, will maintaining a "super chlorinated" state eventually clear it up? Or would I stop SLAM at that point and begin to check some other things?

    I think the part I may be missing is that I assumed that once CC = 0 then theres really nothing left in the pool for the chlorine to attack. I think that may be where I am mistaken. Could there still be a chlorine demand that does not form CC? Other than daily tree/pollen stuff that falls in, and UV?

    As an aside, I think I just noticed that an old Zinc anode had filled half way up with CYA granules when I initially put it in the skimmer without a sock filter (prior to my recent education). It may be slowing adding more CYA to an already high CYA level. I need to remove it and cap the port somehow. When I backflush I can see little white granules spinning past the little view bubble. Seems like the more I learn, the more work I have. Fun times.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Any pink at all on the CC test is recorded as a 0.5 ppm CC, yep.

    CC is not a reliable indicator of algae. It is more often due to other contamination.

    For most SLAMs, the best way to wait for the water to clear before thinking about OCLT. Doing one now is no harm, and will help you understand what's happening. Just test after sunset and before sunrise (pump is running 24/7 so water will be well mixed both times).

    Blue/cloudy is usually just dead algae "carcasses" waiting to get to the filter. Keep filtering 24/7; let the filter get a bit dirty so it catches more; keep the "dust" brushed up so it goes to the filter; consider adding DE to the sand filter per this very specific procedure: Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    There are a host of reasons that can turn a pool cloudy, but 95% of the time it's algae, and your situation definitely sounds like algae. The OCLT will confirm.

    Keep the focus on 35 ppm FC, or go up to 40 if you think the CYA is 100. Better yet, drain some water and bring your CYA down to 70. If you get lots of spring rain, and you're waiting for that to dilute the CYA, that's fine and is a different strategy. It's possible to maintain the pool at 100 ppm CYA and wait for rain; it's challenging though.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Thanks for the response. I haven't been on here in a few days. I think my main issue at this point is that I'm not brushing enough. It is also quite possible that I need to bump FC up a little higher. I've amassed quite a pile of empty bleach jugs. I just got off Pinterest searching "repurpose plastic jugs" haha.

    I'll look into the DE. At this point I can barely see the brush head at the bottom of the deep end - so some progress is being made. Maintaining a pool is any easy way to get a jump on my summer tan... not that I was necessarily looking for that. Just trying to find the positives at this point.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    LOL on the tan!!! There is that.

    The next positive will be when you can see the screw heads on your main drain! It does take lots of brushing and bleach. Keep it up and one day you will wake up and it will look like a jewel!



    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    You can take a picture each day looking down at your brush from the same angle. Then you can scroll through your pics and see the progress. Keep 'er going. You're doing well!

    Maybe you can find this somewhere nearby, 12.5% FC and available in returnable containers:
    Swimming Pool Liquids - Sani-Clor / HASAChlor
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    That stuff look convenient. I'm in Auburn, Alabama and it appears they are mostly dealing on the western half of the country. I'm only 120 miles from atlanta and their search still didn't turn up any vendors there.

    At this point, maintaining a high FC isn't really that hard. Its the "not knowing" if I'm doing it right that bothers me. However, the feedback I've gotten here, and the slow progress being made, help me feel comfortable that I'm doing it right - at least kind-of right.

    I just tested and I'm still right at 35 FC. I'm going to take it to 40 for the next few days and see if that makes a difference. I'll try to grab some DE at home depot tomorrow and try that out.

    Is it possible the sand in my filter is so old that it simply won't clear up the residual "stuff" in the pool? Would changing out the sand make a big difference, or would I mostly be wasting more time and money?
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Try this first:

    Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter

    Sand does not get old nor does it wear out. It can get channeled or clumped up.A deep clean can help with it.

    The DE will make a difference. Just make sure to be there for a while to make sure the pressure does not go up too high the first couple of times ou add it.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    That's the other thing that was bothering me... there's no pressure gage on the filter. I did notice a plastic "screw" that looks like it may be plugging the hole where a gage could screw in. Maybe I need to order one.

    Also, I checked my harness this afternoon and it appears to be very low (120-130)? Will that reading be accurate during SLAM? If it is accurate, how bad is it?
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    A gauge really helps you to know when your filter needs cleaning or when there is a problem. I would order one. You can get the good ones that last longer than 3 months at the link in my siggy for the test kits.

    Your CH does need to come up. If it is too low it can cause problems with the plaster. Here is a link to help you out:

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Hey I just found this...
    Best Places to Buy Liquid Chlorine (Alabama: Pinch-a-Penny)

    And also there's: 2017 Bleach Prices
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately they are only located closer to the coast - about 3+ hours from me.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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    dcrowdus's Avatar
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    Re: I may run out of R-0871 before I finish SLAM...

    Quote Originally Posted by kimkats View Post
    A gauge really helps you to know when your filter needs cleaning or when there is a problem. I would order one. You can get the good ones that last longer than 3 months at the link in my siggy for the test kits.

    Your CH does need to come up. If it is too low it can cause problems with the plaster. Here is a link to help you out:

    Pool School - Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Kim
    Kim,

    Would this work? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N7ZLLBQ..._t1_B00PKFV9L4
    Seems like I'm reading that I need to add about 1 lb to raise 10 ppm per 10,000 gal. And that, I think, is for 100% pure CaCl2. Sounds like I could put in the entire 50lb bag to get somewhere around 300 ppm in my pool.

    I just want to make sure the CH tests I took are accurate during SLAM. Should I wait until I'm done and check it again before adding CH increaser?

    Thanks for all of your help. The water is clearing up - slow, but steady.
    Just bought old house with old in-ground pool. It's been converted to salt water at some point.
    20x40 ~33kGal Hayward Super Pump, I think. With Century 1HP Motor. Broken Booster Pump (1HP).
    Sand Filter. Gunite or Concrete... same thing?

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