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Thread: Newbie Help...Please!

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    Newbie Help...Please!

    Hi everyone! We just got our AG pool installed and filled last week, which by the way is when I found this forum. I thought, 'wow these guys are good!... but now that I read all this and know it all, I'll never have to ask for help'.... which leads me to this (head hung low) BEGGING FOR SOME GUIDANCE!
    Here's my prob: I intended to use the BBB method.(I was already disgusted with the guy at the local pool store) so I poured the pool calculator amount of bleach into my well-water filled pool, according to the pool store test results. also put in some acid to get my PH right. couple days later GREEN CLOUDY water - hubby tells me that we need something stronger to start up a pool so he puts in 6 lbs of *sodium Dichloro-s Triazinetrione* last night
    All that I have are test strips (want a good test kit, but must save up for it) which I know from reading this forum are cr*p! but here's what they say this morning...

    TH-200
    FC - 0
    PH - 7.2
    TA - 200ish
    CYA - 0

    after putting all that chlorine in there - why the heck don't I have any chlorine in there????
    my water is now nice and clear but there is a few little swimming bugs living in there - GROSS! I don't know what to do or what I need to get my chlorine up or if the stuff hubby put in is 'OK'.... I think that stuff has CYA in it but its not showing on the strip either, so how much more of that stuff, if any, do I need to add? Oh my Gosh I'm so LOST - Please help me make a shopping list!

    THANKS
    Oklahoma
    15,000 gal AG w/ sand filter & 1.5hp pump

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Welcome to TFP.

    Chlorine is a consumable. It needs to be added at least daily.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Welcome to the forum and rest assured that lots of help is on the way.

    With no CYA in the water, chlorine will quickly get consumed by the sun. According to the pool calculator, you need to add 70 oz of CYA to bring it up to 35. The dichlor shock your husband added will add some CYA to the pool, so you might want to get the level tested again before you buy too much.

    He added 6 bags of shock? That's a bit much, but the level should decrease pretty quickly when the sun comes out. You might want to point out the handy pool calculator (http://www.poolcalculator.com) so he can more accurately judge the amounts needed next time based on your pool size.

    But you are going to quickly find that without a good test kit, it's a lot more difficult to really know what is going on. Everyone on here is going to recommend a good kit ASAP (although we do understand the budgeting problem). But you will quickly find that the kit will pay for itself many times over with the chemicals you are not buying from unclear or poor readings.

    Also be sure to read through the Pool School... pool-school/

    Good luck and keep reading!
    28K IG Vinyl lined pool - 1 skimmer, 2 returns
    Hayward DE 60sqft filter; Polaris 280 vacuum with booster pump

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Thank you thank you I'm going to go get some CYA today and more bleach and see what happens....
    how long do I need to wait to put the bleach in after the CYA? and since there is little swimmer bugs in the water, do I need to go to shock level on my FC?
    Oklahoma
    15,000 gal AG w/ sand filter & 1.5hp pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    I plugged in your dichlor shock / and test strips numbers into the Pool Calculator. It has this handy section called "Effects of Adding Chemicals". That showed that in your pool, 6 lbs of dichlor would raise the FC to OVER 26. That is too high for a pool with no CYA, and you can damage your new pool, specifically the liner. High FC levels with no CYA to act as a buffer can cause the liner to fade/bleach out. Dichlor also lowers PH, and it raises CYA. Thankfully, the FC probably dissappeared right way from the algae, but in the future he needs to know that kind of thing is very risky.

    You should now have about 24 ppm of CYA in your pool. It doesn't always register right away, but that's how much 6 lbs of Dichlor would raise your level in your pool by. So be sure to take that into account when you add more to get it into the 30-50 range. Since you have a sand filter, I recommend you use 50 as your target, and the level will slowly drop over the summer by routine backwashing of your filter.

    Do you have any more Dichlor bags of shock left? If yes, skip this next section on CYA for now....

    Put 3 lbs of CYA in a sock and set it to the side in the skimmer, where it will dissolve. Leave the pump running while the CYA dissolves. Don't retest for the CYA for about 5 days, but assume it's in there and adjust your FC levels according to the CYA chart. Your level should be close to 50 after this. So after 24 hours after you add the CYA, start using 6 as your "target" and keep your FC above "4" at all times.

    If you do have Dichlor left, how much do you have?

    You don't need to wait to add bleach. Since we don't have a good way to test, go ahead and use the pool calculator to target a FC of 10 once more for now, you want your FC to start holding. Until the FC starts holding overnight at 10 (once you have the CYA dissolved your shock level will go from 10 to 20) then you can let the FC drop to 4-6. Once you get this straight, you never want the FC to drop below 4, okay?

    You really need a good test kit, to know if your FC is holding overnight. That is how you know if you need to shock your pool or not. I highly recommend the Taylor K-2006 (order online) or the TF-100 by TFtestkits.net, this is the kit I have and its a better value for the money, sold online only, but fast shipping you can get it in like 2 days.

    The little bugs do tend to like pools that are out of balance, over time when you get your chemistry straight you shouldn't see them. If you still do, you could add borates to your pool, as some people attest they help in that area.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    thanks again, this is so helpful! I'll post again once I get the 3 lbs cya and bleach in the water later. I just hope I can make it through this next week with the strips and then I'm ordering a test kit the week after that. so far these stupid little strips have NEVER showed that I have any FC even immediately after the ungodly amounts of shock bags hubby threw in!
    hopefully I'll start seeing some FC - I'm beginning to be very impatient!
    Oklahoma
    15,000 gal AG w/ sand filter & 1.5hp pump

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    oh sorry forgot to answer that I don't have any dichlor left- but can pick some up if I have to?
    Oklahoma
    15,000 gal AG w/ sand filter & 1.5hp pump

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by munsellpool
    oh sorry forgot to answer that I don't have any dichlor left- but can pick some up if I have to?
    If you're going to a pool store then usually picking up CYA and chlorine separately is preferable, you can manage each of them independently (depending on circumstances it may bring up CYA faster). If you're going somewhere else that doesn't have CYA then dichlor would work. The dichlor ratio is: for every 10ppm FC, you also get 9ppm CYA.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by munsellpool
    oh sorry forgot to answer that I don't have any dichlor left- but can pick some up if I have to?
    What Paul said. I was just wondering, because if you already had it on hand we can walk you thru using it to increase your CYA/FC levels.

    If not, don't worry about it, bleach and CYA seperately are better, plus your PH was getting low from the DIchlor anyway.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    oletrout's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Hi munsellpool.Welcome to the best place on the net for professional and unbiased opinions and help with your pool. It's all a bit overwhelming at first but if you do the reading and take the advise of the folks here you will be a Trouble Free Pool Owner in no time. To add to the other posters comments-YOU ARE NOW IN GOOD HANDS. I was where you are 3 weeks ago and now I'm the happiest pool owner on the block.

    What frustratedpoolmom said:
    Put 3 lbs of CYA in a sock and set it to the side in the skimmer, where it will dissolve. Leave the pump running while the CYA dissolves. Don't retest for the CYA for about 5 days, but assume it's in there and adjust your FC levels according to the CYA chart.
    I'm quite sure she also meant to add NOT TO BACKWASH for that length of time because it takes the CYA that long to completely dissolve and backwashing will be depleting it


    Cheers and good luck to you.
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    By putting CYA in a sock and having it dissolve in the sock vs. the filter, it allows one to backwash if necessary. If one were to add CYA directly to the filter, then yes, don't backwash for several days or the CYA will go out with the backwash flow!

    I like the sock in front of the return, better than in in the skimmer myself, but then often people are left scratching their head on how to attach the sock to the return area, so it's easy to just advise setting in the skimmer...
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    oletrout's Avatar
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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    I like the sock in front of the return, better than in in the skimmer myself, but then often people are left scratching their head on how to attach the sock to the return area, so it's easy to just advise setting in the skimmer..
    Yep me too. I use a pair panty hose and fill each leg. . Shake it down to two clumps.Hang it in front of the return with the free end around a brick or something .The return bounces the two filled legs all about and against each other and it dissolves fairly fast.
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Newbie Help...Please!

    Quote Originally Posted by oletrout
    I use a pair panty hose and fill each leg. . Shake it down to two clumps.Hang it in front of the return with the free end around a brick or something .The return bounces the two filled legs all about and against each other and it dissolves fairly fast.
    Spring that on some unsuspecting friend sometime...
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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