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Thread: Noob here with chlorine question

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    Trifive's Avatar
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    Noob here with chlorine question

    Hi all, newbie nobody here from Houston. I just had a 13,700 gal IG plaster pool/spa put in by A&S. I'm a very hands on type of guy and have dove right in learning about water chemistry and such. While it all makes pretty good sense to me, I am confused about the FC level. So A&S put in the Nature2 deal with the cartridge and puck feeder and tells me that for warranty purposes I have to keep the chlorine at .5-1 FC as the cartridge does it's magic. After reading on here for the past month that seems to not to be an OK FC count (not to mention the pucks add CYA). Now, my FC has gotten away from me. for the first week or so it was about 1.0. Pool School start up guy told me to "go ahead and shock the pool once a week" and gave me several 1lb bags of that ReFresh plus. So, because I'm new and "trusted" Pool School guy I do exactly that and throw a bag of that in once a week (3 bags over the past 4 weeks). I bought the K-2006 test kit and have been testing everyday and my FC is at 9.4. It seems to stay at 7-9+ no matter what. So I turned the dial down to 1 on the Nature2 to see if that helps and it didn't. So I took out all the Tri-chlor pucks from it today so that it's not introducing any new chlorine into pool and to allow the FC to come down. Can that bag of ReFresh keep the FC high for all week since i put the last one in 3 days ago? I understood that those shock bags were like a 24 hour deal at best?

    After reading about all the shocking and Nature2 and such I'm interested in following the TFP way. Pool water is crystal clear and here are the #'s:

    Pump runs 8 hours a day.
    FC 9.4
    CC 0
    PH 7.4
    TA 120
    CH 300
    CYA 30

    Also, all of the literature that A&S gave me says DO NOT enter pool at FC levels above 3.0! But reading here, that doesn't seem to be the case. So at what FC level is it unsafe to get in the water?

    Thanks for all the help. I hope my post made sense.
    13,700 gallon, IG plaster pool/spa, cartridge filter, 2 sheer descents by Anthony and Sylvan. BBB method. Stenner pump for chlorine.

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    triptyx's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Welcome to TFP!

    I'll let someone else handle the questions about the Nature 2 and whatnot.

    The most important immediate answer is about swimming!

    It is safe to swim when:
    1. FC is below SLAM level for your CYA reading.
    2. pH is between 7.2 and 8
    3. You can see the bottom of the pool (safety!)

    That's it!

    Luckily, your CYA isn't out of control (yet). 30 is perfectly fine, but tossing in those bags of shock is going to make it not-fine in short order.

    The general consensus you're going to hear here is shut down the Nature 2 completely and remove the "mineral pack" from it ASAP. Adding metals to a pool is an extremely bad idea and can cause all kinds of staining and other problems as the concentration builds up. Start chlorinating with liquid chlorine or bleach to avoid unwanted increases in CYA.
    8,500gal plaster in-ground with attached spa, two floor drains, one skimmer. Chlorine, City Water.
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Welcome,

    Several questions here, but I will take a couple of them. The shock addition once a week is false. No one here follwing the TFPC method shock their pools once a week, and there are thousands of them that are always safe, clean, and crystal clear. The bags could be lasting much longer than 24 hours this time of year with the cool temperatures in general, and in the water. To say they only last 24 hours is dependent on many factors. Put two in the right size pool, and they would hardly register, and over do it in a smaller one, and size is just one consideration.

    If your FC is above shock value is above what we suggest per Cya level, then it's too high to swim in. Understanding the Cya/FC relationship ratios is key to what we teach. It sounds like you're off to a great start, but I do suggest going into Pool School and study the ABCs first. Continue reading, and asking questions here as you need too. Others will enjoy chiming in on some other elements here, particularly the Nature 2 system, and why we don't recommend it.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    welcome get ready for a ton of replies.

    FC can take a long time to drop in a pool that is not getting a lot of direct sunlight. I once over shot my levels in December and it took over a month to come down. Chlorine is chlorine no matter where it comes from it will break down at a rate dependent on sunlight exposure and how much organic matter it has to oxidize. As a general rule we say it is safe to swim at FC levels up to SLAM so assuming a CYA level of 30 you can swim with FC up to 12. One of our chemical experts can explain exactly why but it has to do with most of the chlorine being bonded to the CYA.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Trifive's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Thanks! I have been reading and reading on here...pool school, CYA charts and all. All good info. I do plan on not using the Nature2 scam now that I know better and will probably just use it when I'm out of town for the puck feeder part (say that fast five times). Good to know it's safe to swim in under SLAM levels. So that leads me to ask, and maybe there's no answer, but why does all the pool builder and pool equipment literature focus on the max of 3.0 FC? Marketing?
    13,700 gallon, IG plaster pool/spa, cartridge filter, 2 sheer descents by Anthony and Sylvan. BBB method. Stenner pump for chlorine.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    They're selling devices. Cha-Ching!

    Some Texas pool builders have had some resistance to putting in SWG devices because the stones from there are soft and may develop warranty claims, so in place of selling you the SWG sale they sold you a different device. A sale is a sale right?

    Yip
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Much of the "industry" recommended levels were developed decades ago and who knows what if any understanding of chemistry those who came up with the standards had. The info on this site has been extensively user tested and there have been and continues to be some chemical experts on the forum that get far into the weeds on the chemical side and are able to validate what has been tried and true. If you want to take a swim in the "deep end" Do a search for user chem geek, when I first joined I read many of his threads some of it I could understand right away much of it was over my head burt all worth the effort.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    They are doing what they have always done and been told to do. Here at TFP all of our levels are science based and backed up by extensive testing in thousands of pools. The most important part that most PB and others miss or don't know about is the CYA/FC relationship. If your CYA were 0 then a FC of 3 would be too high. CYA buffers the FC and acts as a sunscreen for it as well.

    The pool industries is S.L.O.W.L.Y learning this information. BUT the old "But that is how we have always done it" is hard to break.

    I wish you could find a TFP pool in your area and another pool that is not a TFP. You will be able to tell which is which just be looking-the TFP will SPARKLE like a jewel where the non-TFP will appear "flat" and dull.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Quote Originally Posted by Trifive View Post
    Thanks! I have been reading and reading on here...pool school, CYA charts and all. All good info. I do plan on not using the Nature2 scam now that I know better and will probably just use it when I'm out of town for the puck feeder part (say that fast five times). Good to know it's safe to swim in under SLAM levels. So that leads me to ask, and maybe there's no answer, but why does all the pool builder and pool equipment literature focus on the max of 3.0 FC? Marketing?
    The root of it has nothing to do with marketing, but regulations. Government regulations do not recognize the Chlorine Cya relationship and therefore use pretty much the same regulations as they do for drinking water Chlorine levels, so industry follows suit. Manufacturers and other industry people cannot supersede Government limits so they keep it there.
    TFP Moderator
    Essential Links:
    ABC's Of Pool Chemistry, Test Kits, SLAM Your Pool
    28K Gal IG FreeForm, CLI Quartz, Pentair 36"SF & VS Pump, Dolphin M5, Rheem

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    Trifive's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    All good info everyone. Much appreciated. I've been reading for hours today about the stenner pumps for chlorine. I will be ordering one ASAP and retire the brand new Nature2 scam set up. Thank you again.
    13,700 gallon, IG plaster pool/spa, cartridge filter, 2 sheer descents by Anthony and Sylvan. BBB method. Stenner pump for chlorine.

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    Trifive's Avatar
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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    I found a new Stenner 85MPHP17 online for 150 bucks. After reading all the Stenner threads this pump seems like over kill but for the price it's hard to pass up. If I understamd correctly it'll still work but really only need to run for a short period of time due to the volume it dispenses. Opinions? Should I buy it or go for the smaller 45 series?
    13,700 gallon, IG plaster pool/spa, cartridge filter, 2 sheer descents by Anthony and Sylvan. BBB method. Stenner pump for chlorine.

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    Re: Noob here with chlorine question

    Will work just fine, as you have surmised just have to reduce the Stenner run time a bit. As long as you have a timer that will adjust in minute increments you should be able to dial it in.
    12,300 Gallon, IG PebbleFina, 3 ft sheer, 2 Jandy nicheless LED lights, Jandy Pro 1.5HP VS pump (A.O. Smith Motor), PB4-60 Booster pump, Polaris 280, Jandy cv340 cartridge filter, Zodiac Z4 control panel W/iAquaLink, Stenner pumps for chlorine & MA connected to WiOn WiFi switches, TF-100. You can support TFP with AmazonSmile just click the link!

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