New owner-builder (kinda) in Arizona

The Arizona color looks very close to my finish color. When I was looking as samples the PB told me to pace the samples in water. The plaster color will darken when wet.

Wet/Dry plaster
AHZbNhZ-1.jpg


Water Color: Mid day, no clouds. This is the lightest blue to pool looks. Afternoon is a deeper blue.
oWyKY7c-1.jpg


BQ3Fjle-1.jpg

What color is yours? It looks great!!


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I'm starting to get quotes from subs, & im waiting for my permit!

I do have a few questions, if anyone would be willing to weigh in.

Is #3 on 12" o.c. For vert. & horz. Rebar adequate?? I guess this is standard for my 3.5/4.5/4 depth.

Also, any opinions on Pebble Sheen colors? I like a sapphire blue water. I'm considering Blue Surf or Blue Granite. It's only $77 more to upgrade from non-brand name mini pebble to Pebble Tec (Pebble Sheen) - no brainer, right?

Is it worth $180 for Shimmering Sea & $360 for Beadcrete?




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I'm starting to get quotes from subs, & im waiting for my permit!

I do have a few questions, if anyone would be willing to weigh in.

Is #3 on 12" o.c. For vert. & horz. Rebar adequate?? I guess this is standard for my 3.5/4.5/4 depth.

Also, any opinions on Pebble Sheen colors? I like a sapphire blue water. I'm considering Blue Surf or Blue Granite. It's only $77 more to upgrade from non-brand name mini pebble to Pebble Tec (Pebble Sheen) - no brainer, right?

Is it worth $180 for Shimmering Sea & $360 for Beadcrete?




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I can't help you on the engineering part, but I would think it "might" be helpful to have the brand name product just for advertising if you go to sell the house someday, and for that price difference, if you like the colors then it does seem like a no brainer. On the colors, try to see at least one pool with that color in person if you can, realizing that the color is also going to depend on the colors around it in your location. My blue surf has more aqua than the one I saw, but it was also two years old, and more in the open. I have a gold house color, and a tan wall color surrounding the pool on all sides, no more than 5' away, so I think that's where I'm getting the color difference.

I think most here will tell you the bling-bling is a "must do", and at that price definitely! You may also enjoy the shimmering sea better with a double batch. That's what we did with mine, and it's very sparkly! It only shows in the sunlight though.
 
I'm starting to get quotes from subs, & im waiting for my permit!

I do have a few questions, if anyone would be willing to weigh in.

Is #3 on 12" o.c. For vert. & horz. Rebar adequate?? I guess this is standard for my 3.5/4.5/4 depth.

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You want #4 rebar, #3 is okay on vertical. I think 10" OC is more typical and I've seen 8", but that's usually overkill. Do you have any areas of the Pool above ground, I.e- sloping yard?



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You want #4 rebar, #3 is okay on vertical. I think 10" OC is more typical and I've seen 8", but that's usually overkill. Do you have any areas of the Pool above ground, I.e- sloping yard?



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No, my yard is flat. That #3 on 12" is what is called out on the plan, & the engineering was done by a pre-approved firm - the county is very familiar with them. I don't know if these sorts of things vary by region, or not.

I'm wondering if I should ask for a bid on more "beefed" up rebar, or if it's not necessary.


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No, my yard is flat. That #3 on 12" is what is called out on the plan, & the engineering was done by a pre-approved firm - the county is very familiar with them. I don't know if these sorts of things vary by region, or not.

I'm wondering if I should ask for a bid on more "beefed" up rebar, or if it's not necessary.


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It does vary by region and other factors. Austin is hilly, so builders here tend to use a standard that is good for walls up to 3' above grade. I personally like to over engineer stuff (it's a problem I have), so I would at least ask about #4 rebar. It's likely a couple hundred bucks difference.
 
It does vary by region and other factors. Austin is hilly, so builders here tend to use a standard that is good for walls up to 3' above grade. I personally like to over engineer stuff (it's a problem I have), so I would at least ask about #4 rebar. It's likely a couple hundred bucks difference.

This is what it calls out - upgrade looks to be #3, just closer together. Does that help, or is #4 @ 12 better than that? Sorry, I know nothing about rebar! Thank you!
 
I'm not an expert, just what I've learned from talking with rebar guys and pool companies. In general, the more rebar the better; however, you need room to get in the concrete. So doing #3 closer together is great. I like they specified this on the verticals, the walls are where you have higher forces.
 
I'm not an expert, just what I've learned from talking with rebar guys and pool companies. In general, the more rebar the better; however, you need room to get in the concrete. So doing #3 closer together is great. I like they specified this on the verticals, the walls are where you have higher forces.

Thank you for your input. I'm going to see how much it is to upgrade the rebar.


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Thank you for your input. I'm going to see how much it is to upgrade the rebar.


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IMG_3186.JPGIMG_3183.jpg
Here is an example of my build. Notice the additional #3 rebar coming up with a bend towards the form (in between two #4 rebar). Basically they lay everything out on 12" centers then add additional rebar in between. Not a lot involved to do this, so should be minimal cost.


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Here is an example of my build. Notice the additional #3 rebar coming up with a bend towards the form (in between two #4 rebar). Basically they lay everything out on 12" centers then add additional rebar in between. Not a lot involved to do this, so should be minimal cost.


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So if it was #3 @ 12"
& then an extra #3 in between, that would help a lot? Is this just for the walls?

I emailed the contractor and asked him what he would recommend in order to beef it up a bit :)

All of the quotes are very vague, so it helps if you know what to ask/look for. Yikes! I may be in over my head... you have to put a lot of trust in the subs & thankfully, I have TFP!!


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So if it was #3 @ 12"
& then an extra #3 in between, that would help a lot? Is this just for the walls?

I emailed the contractor and asked him what he would recommend in order to beef it up a bit :)

All of the quotes are very vague, so it helps if you know what to ask/look for. Yikes! I may be in over my head... you have to put a lot of trust in the subs & thankfully, I have TFP!!


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Yes, #3 @ 12" and #3 @ 6" for the walls(verticals). They may also specify a different number of rebar runs in the bond beam, but again lots of different opinions on this. These guys should know what they are doing, so I would ask what pool builders they work with and what they usually do with these builders. You don't need to be a rebar expert, just pick someone you are comfortable with. You have a straight forward build, so it will be fine.


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Yes, #3 @ 12" and #3 @ 6" for the walls(verticals). They may also specify a different number of rebar runs in the bond beam, but again lots of different opinions on this. These guys should know what they are doing, so I would ask what pool builders they work with and what they usually do with these builders. You don't need to be a rebar expert, just pick someone you are comfortable with. You have a straight forward build, so it will be fine.


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That sounds like a good idea! I'm probably driving them crazy making them provide me with more detail.


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Hi Azsunsets. Just wondering who you used for your design? We are in the beginning process of installing a new pool in Chandler. We originally went to a designer originally and they totally disregarded our budget and gave us a proposal that was for $220K!!! So Im thinking the OB route is the way to go. Just don't know where to start with design and construction plans. Thanks!
 
I've thought of a few points to consider that may prove relevant to your design since I'm not that far away (in Gilbert); though sadly I don't have any pool-building experience.

First (putting on my geologist hat here), it's important to find out which soil unit your house is built on. Check the USDA Web Soil Survey, set the AOI to Arizona and select Eastern Maricopa and Northern Pinal Counties Area (AZ655) then open the soil map, find your property, and then which map unit symbol applies to your property (I'm happy to help with interpreting the soil info if you can tell me the which unit you're on). Here's why it's important, my house for example is built on Contine clay loam (map unit Co, which also makes up 10.2% of the total area of the AZ655 map), and the clay portion of the Contine is very mildly expansive. As in just expansive enough to make things crack (like tiny frost heaves) when it gets saturated with rainwater or drip irrigation. If you're on a gravelly/sandy/alluvial loam unit, soil expansion shouldn't be an issue. If you're on one of the many clay containing units scattered across San Tan/the East Valley, you really might want to look into beefing up that rebar.

You asked earlier about travertine, from a geology perspective travertine is a fancy way of saying "porous soft-ish limestone." In the field every geology student carries a tiny bottle of hydrochloric acid (aka muriatic acid) to test for carbonate rocks (like limestone) by putting drops of acid on them, which makes them fizz entertainingly as they dissolve. So if you put travertine near a pool, it needs to be really really well sealed, which can indeed make it slippery and it does need to be periodically resealed. Personally I would never do it since I find it to be insanely expensive for a (relatively) weak, tempermental, high maintenence rock. And I really, really, like rocks.

I noticed in the initial rendering there are palm trees along several walls. I'm actually in the process of removing the palm trees in my backyard since I'm sick and tired of them raining down spent flowers and seeds for months and they don't provide much shade once they're tall (and then you have to have someone come prune them which gets expensive). The only one that does provide me any shade is a 13 ft tall medjool date palm, which is not at all a good poolside palm. So I'd suggest avoiding palms unless you want a big date palm, in which case feel free to come get mine! ;)

Definitely you'll want a robot, and you'll want to be sure it can access every inch. Prevailing winds are from the south and west, which means San Tan is the first to get hit (after Casa Grande/Maricopa) by the multiple-times-a-week duststorms during Aug-Sept. You do not want to be manually clearing out the dirt out of the pool after each one, it's already bad enough having to clean off all the outdoor furniture, bbq etc.

Finally about the finish color and water features. Last summer our pool with "sandy beach" color pebble tec and in shade except between 9am-2:30/3:00pm was pushing 95 degrees by June. Although 95 is still nicer to feel on your body than the 120 degree air that's scorching your head, it's not exactly refeshing. I wish we had more than just the little aerator fountain thingy (and we'll probably add a waterfall next year), because it would be so much easier to remove heat by turning on a fountain or waterfall than to drive to the nearest Fry's to find 10 lb blocks of ice to throw in it. The darker colors look very pretty, but you may find they help hold heat a little too effectively.

These are just my opinions and observations, (except for the soil thing) so your mileage of course will vary, but hopefully they're of some utility. Good luck with the build!
 
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WOW! What an awesome first post! That is some great info there! I never knew you could look up stuff like that!

I hope you stick around and share you knowledge some more! :hug:

Kim:kim:

Aww thank you! I just figure I can share what I know and hopefully it's useful to someone, and hopefully other people can help me learn the things that I don't know; because there's a LOT of stuff I don't know! :D
 
I've thought of a few points to consider that may prove relevant to your design since I'm not that far away (in Gilbert); though sadly I don't have any pool-building experience.

First (putting on my geologist hat here), it's important to find out which soil unit your house is built on. Check the USDA Web Soil Survey, set the AOI to Arizona and select Eastern Maricopa and Northern Pinal Counties Area (AZ655) then open the soil map, find your property, and then which map unit symbol applies to your property (I'm happy to help with interpreting the soil info if you can tell me the which unit you're on). Here's why it's important, my house for example is built on Contine clay loam (map unit Co, which also makes up 10.2% of the total area of the AZ655 map), and the clay portion of the Contine is very mildly expansive. As in just expansive enough to make things crack (like tiny frost heaves) when it gets saturated with rainwater or drip irrigation. If you're on a gravelly/sandy/alluvial loam unit, soil expansion shouldn't be an issue. If you're on one of the many clay containing units scattered across San Tan/the East Valley, you really might want to look into beefing up that rebar.

You asked earlier about travertine, from a geology perspective travertine is a fancy way of saying "porous soft-ish limestone." In the field every geology student carries a tiny bottle of hydrochloric acid (aka muriatic acid) to test for carbonate rocks (like limestone) by putting drops of acid on them, which makes them fizz entertainingly as they dissolve. So if you put travertine near a pool, it needs to be really really well sealed, which can indeed make it slippery and it does need to be periodically resealed. Personally I would never do it since I find it to be insanely expensive for a (relatively) weak, tempermental, high maintenence rock. And I really, really, like rocks.

I noticed in the initial rendering there are palm trees along several walls. I'm actually in the process of removing the palm trees in my backyard since I'm sick and tired of them raining down spent flowers and seeds for months and they don't provide much shade once they're tall (and then you have to have someone come prune them which gets expensive). The only one that does provide me any shade is a 13 ft tall medjool date palm, which is not at all a good poolside palm. So I'd suggest avoiding palms unless you want a big date palm, in which case feel free to come get mine! ;)

Definitely you'll want a robot, and you'll want to be sure it can access every inch. Prevailing winds are from the south and west, which means San Tan is the first to get hit (after Casa Grande/Maricopa) by the multiple-times-a-week duststorms during Aug-Sept. You do not want to be manually clearing out the dirt out of the pool after each one, it's already bad enough having to clean off all the outdoor furniture, bbq etc.

Finally about the finish color and water features. Last summer our pool with "sandy beach" color pebble tec and in shade except between 9am-2:30/3:00pm was pushing 95 degrees by June. Although 95 is still nicer to feel on your body than the 120 degree air that's scorching your head, it's not exactly refeshing. I wish we had more than just the little aerator fountain thingy (and we'll probably add a waterfall next year), because it would be so much easier to remove heat by turning on a fountain or waterfall than to drive to the nearest Fry's to find 10 lb blocks of ice to throw in it. The darker colors look very pretty, but you may find they help hold heat a little too effectively.

These are just my opinions and observations, (except for the soil thing) so your mileage of course will vary, but hopefully they're of some utility. Good luck with the build!

Wow!! Thank you so much for all the info. I'm going to try to look up my property.

I will message you if I have questions - if that's ok?

I'm looking into pavers as a decking option.
Thanks again!


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