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Thread: 6 months - time for borates?

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    jeremycrook's Avatar
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    6 months - time for borates?

    Last test results as of yesterday 3/13/17:

    FC 8
    PH 7.5
    TA 70
    CH 375
    CYA was 30 - Sunday I added 1 quart CYA into skimmer to move up to 60+
    TEMP 51
    SALT 3200


    My CSI was a little off with these numbers however if the temp was higher the CSI would be in range.

    BORATES PLAN: I am going to reduce TA (~50) a little and add borates, I purchased 25 lbs Boric Acid and was double checking if this is ok being 6 month post fill?

    With Ph around 7.5 PoolMath says to add 11oz MA to get to 7.2 and 22oz to get to 7.0. What should I shoot for? And should I then (half hour or so after adding MA) just spread Borate granules across the deep end and begin brushing until dissolved?

    Thanks in advance. Jeremy
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    Yes, it is fine to add Borates from a 6 month old pool perspective. There is no reason to lower PH before adding boric acid. It is close to pH neutral and will only lower PH slightly. Once your TA is down to 50-60 your target pH will be 7.8. When it gets to 8.0 then lower it to 7.7 or 7.8 again.
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    jeremycrook's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    Yes, it is fine to add Borates from a 6 month old pool perspective. There is no reason to lower PH before adding boric acid. It is close to pH neutral and will only lower PH slightly. Once your TA is down to 50-60 your target pH will be 7.8. When it gets to 8.0 then lower it to 7.7 or 7.8 again.
    I thought I wanted to lower TA ~50, thus resulting in the Ph lowering due to adding the MA. The pool math calculator didn't have results in lowering TA, only showing lowering the Ph will also lower TA.
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    A little lower in PoolMath is Effects of Adding Chems. When lowering TA enter current pH and target pH of 7.0. Then you can enter the amount of acid in Effects of Adding Chems and it will tell you how much it will lower TA.
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    jeremycrook's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    A little lower in PoolMath is Effects of Adding Chems. When lowering TA enter current pH and target pH of 7.0. Then you can enter the amount of acid in Effects of Adding Chems and it will tell you how much it will lower TA.
    That is what I tried to explain here:

    BORATES PLAN: I am going to reduce TA (~50) a little and add borates, I purchased 25 lbs Boric Acid and was double checking if this is ok being 6 month post fill?

    With Ph around 7.5 PoolMath says to add 11oz MA to get to 7.2 and 22oz to get to 7.0. What should I shoot for? (7.2 would = 60TA and 7.0 would = 50TA)

    Nonetheless I assume I am on the right track, however I have read on different borates threads that I need to add 37lbs boric acid to reach 50ppm.

    That is not what I get when I input the numbers into PoolMath. I am starting with 0 and target is 50, and I get 24lbs. I was going to add the entire 25lb bag and get ~52ppm borate addition, am I correct in this?


    thanks in advance, JC
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    That might be for borax and not boric acid. For boric acid for 9250 gallons 0 to 50 I get 353oz÷16 = 22.06 lbs. I would save the 3 lbs for increasing the level later in the season.

    I would shoot for 50 on TA.
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    Quote Originally Posted by pooldv View Post
    That might be for borax and not boric acid. For boric acid for 9250 gallons 0 to 50 I get 353oz÷16 = 22.06 lbs. I would save the 3 lbs for increasing the level later in the season.

    I would shoot for 50 on TA.
    OK great, I will move forward with TA ~50 and save the excess boric acid, thanks!
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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    jeremycrook's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    FC 2
    CC 0
    TC 2
    PH 7.8
    TA 80
    CH 200
    CYA 50
    TEMP 87
    SALT 3200
    BORATES 50

    I added the borates and have been manually adjusting the SWG as time permits due to running the pumps 24/7 with the heat pump on. My results are way off but CSI is negative -.22, I'm under the impression that as long as this is within reason I should be ok. I've bumped the SWG to 40% this evening as yesterday evening I had it only at 20%, shooting for doubling my CL from 2 ppm to 4-5 ppm by tomorrow evening. I'm a little gun-shy as a month back I put the SWG on 50% and when I checked it it was 22! One week of no SWG and it dropped to 14 then an additional week back to 3.5, so this balancing act is not super easy.

    So my question(s) are do I want to try and drop TA (FROM 80) or wait until the weekend and see if it moves any more?

    Do I want to add something to make the CH go upwards to my 350+ goal?

    Or just continue on with raising the FC to 5 and chill?
    Thanks in advance. JC
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    I would add CH to at least 250 and then check your CSI to make sure it is between -0.6 and +0.6. -0.3 to 0 is better for a saltwater pool.

    I would only lower TA if your pH is still rising after adding borates. If it does rise to 8.0 then I would lower ph to 7.2. That will slowly lower your TA. Once TA gets under 60 start lowering pH from 8.0 to 7.6.
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    jeremycrook's Avatar
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    Re: 6 months - time for borates?

    LAST NIGHTS TEST RESULTS:

    FC 4.5
    CC 0
    TC 4.5
    PH 7.5 (PH was 8+ the day before so I added MA to bring it down)
    TA 90 (TA was 80 the day before)
    CH 250 (I added 4 lbs calcium chloride yesterday and it went up 50, so I added another 4 lb today)
    CYA 50 (today I added a quart of CYA in a sock in the skimmer to raise to 70)
    TEMP 87
    SALT 3200
    BORATES 50

    OK my TA went up from Wednesday after attempting to lower my PH from 8+, TA was 80 and went to 90 last night? So I went ahead and added MA to bring the PH to your recommended 7.2.

    My question is do I need to keep my PH at 7.2 for the next couple days to try and lower the TA, or just bring it down to 7.2 once, (hopefully it is now) and the TA will gradually go down?

    The Borate addition seemed to raise the TA. Hopefully if I can get the TA down in range I will have the TFP recommendations for SWG pool and hopefully stability.

    When adding chemicals I have been using the 9250 gallons that the PB said was my size, and nothing has ever been coming out correct, it's always been lower than the expectations. I need to try and get a better estimate of the volume of the pool. Or just use 10000 gallons.
    9,250 IG / JANDY CV580 / STEALTH 1.65 / TRU CLEAR 11K SWG / JE PRO HP / POLARIS 280 / 8X8 BEACH W/2 BUBBLER / TF-100 TEST KIT / 4 DECK JET

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