Thread moved from "Intoduce yourself" grew to SWCG discussion

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Jedisparky

Jedisparky

0
Silver Supporter
Mar 9, 2017
141
L.A. CA
Pool Size
21000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Ok, so I was asked to bring this topic over incase someone can learn or educate myself or others. So my PB did a great job building my pool but not so great educating me from the point the pool was full. So this discussion opened with Jim and I learned my SWCG needs to turn off with my pump. But because my pump is Variable speed, I need to control my SWCG separately or risk damage to the SWG unit. My PB NEVER told that and installed nothing essentially leaving the Unit on at all times. Here how the thread started: (Jim: OK, let's talk about that please. Next on top of my list of questions was going to be about the SWG Unit anyway. So currently I have the unit disconnected and it is not running during the 30 days start up period. I have not thought about this. I guess I assumed it was somehow wired into the pump. I did not do the wiring from my panel to the pool equipment I let them handle that. I guess I just assumed it was okay for the generator to do whatever it does when the pump is not running. Nobody from the pool company ever explained to me that and automation panel MUST be put in to control the salt water generator. I'm guessing you're about to tell me that that's a problem an I am going to need to automate that because it can't continue to run when the pump is turned off? Good to find that now before the salt is in. Thx for your info in advance." You can read the rest over at "Introduce Yourself" and reply here if you have any input. As I stated before, I'm very grateful to have found this forum to gain such invaluable information as it looks like my training wheels are off and I'm trying not to fall!
 
We've seen several SWG explosions over the years. The risk is if the flow switch malfunctions and the SWG keeps making chlorine it will build up and can explode.

Here are a couple of threads
SWG cell explosion
New Member Swade - SWG exploded

There are a few options

-Wire your SWG to the same timer that powers the pump so it cannot be turned on without the pump.
-This is how mine is wired. Wire the variable speed pump to the breaker for continuous power. Wire the SWG to a timer and set it so that it only runs inside the runtime window of the pump. Right now my pump runs 10a to 8p for solar heating and my SWG runs from noon to 5p.
-Install a current sensing relay that will sense power draw on the pump and then supply power to the SWG.

With pool automation it is different. I'll let Jim finish replying on how to correct the automation wiring.
 
Ya, Jim had mentioned the separate timer and that's a good idea, but my feeling is if I'm going to go through the trouble of installing a timer I may as well just install an automation system myself (I'm an electrician, I should be able to figure it out). I just wanted to let people know this information is kinda important and my PB didn't tell me, so make sure you learn about what's going in beforehand and it may save you some stress in the long-run.

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The new ichlor has some way to tell when the intelliflo is running. Not sure how. So, they are realizing that they need to address the issue. Of course their answer has been to just install automation. But, that's expensive and not everyone wants, needs or can afford that.

It really shouldn't be that hard, the intellichlor power center and intelliflo both have communication links. It should be as easy as connecting them by comm links and allowing them to communicate and coordinate.
 
Agreed James, it should have some type of inexpensive Communication Center just for the two units to work in conjunction with each other and not have to purchase the entire thousand dollar automation system

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Doesn't even need a separate box. Just run a wire from the pump to the power center and let them talk. It should be a simple software update for both products.

They could also include an auxiliary load relay in the pump to control SWGs, booster pumps etc.
 
Jed,

A simple timer is pretty cheap, but if you are interested in automation here is a list of things that it can do...

It is easy for me to spend your money.. but don't let me talk you into anything. Many people have pools without automation and they work just fine. I do, however, think it is important to know the advantages and the disadvantages of having an automation system.

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced.

2. The main downside to automation is cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure you include a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as landscape lights. (The EasyTouch has 8 (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allows you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

Let me know if this interests you and what functions you want to have. Keep in mind nothing is free and I think you are talking $1,000 minimum...

Jim R.
 
Jim, thank you, that's a lot of great information. Since the pool is done and I initially passed on the automation system due to the cost not realizing the situation I would be in now, I have spoken with the PB about the situation and he asked for a couple of days to research it himself. I assume he will come to the conclusion that A) a timer should have been installed with the price I paid and will do so or B) offer to install an Easy Touch 4 at the cost of equipment and labor.
At that point I'll need to make my decision. Being an electrician, I could just have him install the timer and at a later date install Automation myself after I've had time to read and understand the schematics. It'll depend on how much he would charge me as to whether I let him do it or tackle it myself. I'm about 10 days out from adding salt so I could just settle for having him install the timer for the time being to get my system up and running safely and then tackle the automation myself. The equipment's only 30 feet from my sub panel so if I had to repo a wire and rewire everything it wouldn't be that big of a deal it's just getting all the connections made to the automation equipment again that I would have to study and make sure I understand. So for now we'll stand by and see what the PB has to say and I will let you know.
Again thanks for all the information you are all very helpful here

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Jimrahbe said:
Jed,

Thanks for the feedback and good luck with your PB...

Jim R.
Click to expand...
Hey Jim,

The screen logic 2, how's the learning curve on that and do you know if it installs in the panel easy? I guess this is going in as well. Like you said, as well as a others I spoke with, it's a must install with the unit.

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Jed,

Well let me put it this way.... If I can do it, anyone can do it... :)

Basically, the ScreenLogic app gets put on your PC. The EasyTouch talks to something called a Protocol Adapter. One end of the Adapter is connected to the EasyTouch and the other end is connected to an open port on your home router.

You can connect to the Adapter two ways. You can hardwire it, or use the included wireless transceivers. Since my EasyTouch is just a few feet from my router, I just hardwired it.

Like anything Pentair product, you will read the manual and say "What???" But it is pretty easy to learn on your own..

I love it!!!

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Jed,

I'm pretty sure that box was supposed to be shipped to me.

PM me and I'll give you my ship-to address so you can forward it to me... :laughblue:

Did you get the pump unions to install your Intelliflo?

Jim R.
 
Lol, nice try! ? The PB installed all the other pool equipment....I think? What were these particular unions be used for that they wouldn't already be installed?

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Oh, ya we're all good on the rest. Everything else is installed and running. We're going to start up our salt first of the month. Thirty days will be up then.

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Well, I had the Easytouch 4 installed today and it's GLORIOUS! What a nice piece of equipment. I'm ready to start my salt introduction which I'll probably wait till Friday or Saturday when I have time. Hopefully that will go well. Then it's just a matter of dialing everything in. Cheers to this site and everyone who has helped along the way. Your information has been invaluable.

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