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Thread: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Greetings everyone. I have an old sand filter and pump. I was thinking about replacing them. I have a 20x40 vinyl inground pool. Around 30K gallons.

    I was thinking about buying this filter Hayward DE4820 Pro-Grid 48 Sq. Ft. Vertical DE Pool Filter

    This pump. Hayward SP2610X15 Super Pump 1.5-HP Max-Rated Single-Speed Pool Pump

    This valve. Hayward SP0710XR50 Pro-Series Vari-Flo Backwash Valve Coupling

    What do you guys think?

    Thanks
    Kamil




    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Greetings to you as well, and nice to meet you via TFP

    This is mostly a bump, but it might help others to understand your objectives, so I'll ask a couple q's

    Is your current pump doing the job (e.g. skimming to your liking, keeping your water clear and algae is non-existent), and if not, what is it that needs improvement?

    Are you happy with your current electricity consumption or do you need to improve that?

    Do you know the underground plumbing pipe sizes? If not, just post a picture of your equipment pad and we can make a pretty good educated guess.

    Then with those answers front and centre, what's your budget? It's easy to spend money on a pool, and we love spending other people's money But we also want to help you get the most value.

    The 48 sq ft filter is OK for 1.5 HP though I would be inclined to go with 60 sq ft if continuing with a single-speed pump. A better bet might be a 2-speed or variable speed pump.

    Let us know what challenges you're having and there's good expert help here to steer you in the right direction.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Thanks, nice to meet you too via TFP

    It seems that the sand filter is not clearing the water that well. I get algae sometimes and after I brush and add chlorine, the water stays cloudy for many days (5-6 days). Maybe that is normal but it seems like others that have DE filters, their pool clears up a lot faster.

    It also seems like my electric bill is high when the pump is running. Sometimes I run the pump 12 hrs per day.

    I think the pipes are 2" but I will double check.

    My budget is around $1200.. I really can't spend more than that. Maybe I can get the 60 sq ft filter first and then buy a pump later or next year.

    Variable pump sounds like a good idea, then I can regulate the speed and see what works best for the pool.

    Thanks for your help... I really don't know much about pool pumps and filters.

    Kamil
    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    No worries, there will be others come along with great advice. My first step would be getting rid of the algae. Unfortunately, no filter can do that unless the algae is all dead.

    To stop the algae, we SLAM the pool, which is to raise it to shock level and hold it there for several days or even a week. To know the correct shock level, you'll need a recommended test kit. The SLAM method is described here: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain

    A SLAM kills all the algae, including the free-floating live algae that you can't see. If you don't kill it off completely, by doing a SLAM, it just comes back. One time shocking just sets algae back a little.

    Once the SLAM is done, your water will stay clear after the dead algae "carcasses" have been removed. A sand filter can do that job just fine, and yep, it will take a few days. That's because every individual gallon in the pool doesn't go through the filter every day, no matter how long you run it. After the algae is truly dead, you'll be able to reduce pump run time well below your current 12 hours, and your daily chlorine replacement will be considerably less.

    Then would be the time to consider equipment, and the good news is that what you have might be fine!
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Great! Thank you so much! Ill follow these instructions. I still have some time, it's only 20 degrees Fahrenheit here so I have to wait until it warms up a bit . First thing I'll do is get the filter running and then clean the pool. Then check the ph and cya. If the ph looks good, I'll SLAM the pool. I do have the chlorine tester (FAS/DPD). I sometimes don't know how the CYA reading is looking. I mean it's hard to tell when to stop adding the reagent. But I'll try my best to get an accurate reading. So hopefully I'll get the pool opened up correctly. I'll buy 15 gallons of 12.5% Sodium Hypochlorite. This should be enough for SLAMing. But I'll double check the numbers once I open the pool and take initial readings. Thanks again for your help.


    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Sand is a fine filter medium. Have you done a deep cleaning of the sand? Deep Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Also you can add DE to a sand filter to improve filtering: Pool School - Add DE to a Sand Filter

    You may just want to swap out the motor of your pump to a 2-speed.

    Some to think about/read.

    Bob
    Murrieta, CA. 15K (Est) pool/spa. Hayward Tristar SP3220EE 2.70HP pump, Hayward Swimclear Cartridge filter C4025 425sqft (PA106), Pentair Mastertemp 400 heater. TF-100/Speedstir

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Thanks Bob. I'll give that a shot. That's a good idea with the DE. Thanks. I did replace the sand 3 years ago because that's when we moved into this house and the pool was a swamp. The pump does have a tiny pinhole leak that I put some crazy glue on. When I closed the pool. So maybe I'll just get a pump this year. What is so good about a variable pump? Just asking. Thanks.


    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    A 2-speed or variable speed pump uses less energy to get the job done, saving you money on electricity.

    Say you have a 1.5 HP pump running 6 hours per day and that does enough skimming for your taste and your water is clear. For illustration let's say it's drawing 1000 watts while running. So you use 6 kWh per day and again for illustration, it costs $1 per day and $365 per year.

    Low speed on the 2-speed pump can probably move the same amount of water in around 10 hours, drawing only 200 watts or 2 kWh per day. This happens because a lot of what the pump is doing is overcoming the head loss caused by pushing water through the filter and return jets, and overcoming friction loss as the water is pushed through the pipes, valves and other fittings. In round numbers, when you reduce flow by half, energy needed to push water drops by 3/4 or more. So now your electricity cost is around $120 per year. And your filter tends to be more efficient at a lower flow rate as well. There is minimal downside to a 2-speed; you just need to buy a 2-speed pump timer. Note that numbers are strictly to show examples and your mileage will vary!!

    A variable speed pump can be fine-tuned for your situation, which can provide additional savings. VS pumps have onboard electronics to provide timer and speed settings for each running period. This can be helpful with water features, cleaners and the like. Additional electronics add complexity and should be protected by a surge suppressor. But a VS pump will achieve the same benefit of lower operating cost.

    Some power companies have incentive programs for switching pool pumps from single-speed to dual or variable speed, so that's worth checking into as well.
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Ok, cool, thanks. How much are the VS pumps? It sounds like I will buy one, since the one I have is really old and the impeller housing has a small crack in it. Which pump should I get? Which timer should I get? I have 1.5" pipes.

    Thanks,
    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Hopefully someone with more experience over there comes along.

    This is just my own opinion, but if I were you, I'd buy a Pentair SuperFlo VS for $700 or less.

    My next purchase would be a salt water chlorinator (SWG). I wouldn't change the filter. The Pentair chlorinators cost a bit, but if you may ever want to add an automation panel, it's a good plan to have everything in one brand, so that would be a Pentair IC60. I would probably buy a Circupool SWG around the 55,000 gallon size. Either one would need a timer to control it, so that you can set it to come on only when the pump is running. Or you could allocate another $600+ for basic automation; $1000++ for automation with smartphone controls, and up and up and up .

    From what I've read here at TFP, good brands include Hayward, Pentair, and Jandy, and others probably as well. Raypak for heaters.

    This thread would be worth following...
    Ready to replace all my equipment - Need suggestions
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Yes, the Pentair Superflo VS pump or the Hayward Maxflo VS pump are good choices. You can run the pump at 1100 or 1200 rpm for skimming, filtering and making chlorine with an SWG and it will use less than 200 watts. They have on board programmable timers. Inyo Pools or Sunplay are good places to buy one.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Great thanks everyone for all your help. I'm anxious to get the pool opened again. This winter in Pennsylvania is getting old, I'm ready for warm weather. So the SWG makes chlorine from the salt water, right? That's pretty cool. I'll have to figure out a way to install one. Does it connect after the filter? So I just dump a bunch of salt into the pool and have it around 3200 ppm? Then the cell will use current to create chorine? I'll have to save money for that next. Thanks again. I'm tired of running to the pool store to get liquid chlorine. Those 5 gallon jugs are heavy. Later guys.


    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Yes, SWGs are very cool more here
    Pool School - Salt Water Chlorine Generators

    And more about balancing your saltwater here
    Pool School - Water Balance for SWGs
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Kamil's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    Ok, thanks. So the SWG is just that piece of pipe that has the cell inside? I just need to buy that and the control panel? Sounds simple enough. Oh yeah, the salt too. Probably a lot of bags for a 28K gallon pool. Do you guys buy the salt from the pool store?


    Kamil
    28K gal installed 1985, IG Vinyl, Jacuzzi Sand Filter ST-24 (60 GMP) DVK-7 Valve, Jacuzzi Magnum Plus pump

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    I buy my salt at lowes.
    TFP Moderator
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    needsajet's Avatar
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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    A salt water chlorinator includes the electrolytic cell, which is mounted inside a cell housing which become part of the plumbing. The SWG is powered by a power supply that converts AC to DC and regulates power going to the cell to work consistently in various temperatures and within a design range of salinity. The power supply cabinet includes electronics to accomplish this, and an interface of some kind for settings. So a SWG includes these three components. The cell housing is usually installed as the last piece of equipment at the pad before the pipes go underground and on to the pool's return jets (so yep, after the filter and heater).

    The SWG will specify a concentration for salt in the pool water. The existing water is always tested first, and then sufficient new salt is added to meet the SWGs specification. Pools already have salt in them, from past chlorine and/or acid addition.

    Here's a thread with discussion of salt source: Salt for SWG?
    12k IG salt; glass beads in plaster; K-2006C, K-1766, K-1106 and CCL test kits; Pentair Eco800 1.2HP VS; Zodiac SWCG 1.3 lb/day (25 g/hr); 25" filter recycled glass; OKU solar panels; 1/2 HP solar pump; Rebel (Warrior) pool cleaner; FlowViz; Other family pools 10K SWCG and 15K on liquid; PoolMath app subscriber; | Read Before Posting to get the best possible advice | ... and this helped me a lot!: TFPC for Beginners

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    Re: New DE filter/valve and Pump?

    If you want to do a de filter, the 48 would work but the 60 is preferable.

    I would do the SP0715xr50 2" multiport instead of the 1.5".

    A two speed or variable speed pump would be better than a single speed.

    If you want to go single speed, I would suggest getting a 3/4 total hp pump such as the SP2605X7.

    Check your utility for available rebates on variable speed pumps.
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