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Thread: size SWG?

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    size SWG?

    I'm wondering what brand and type of SWG to buy for my ig, 20,000 gal pool in Central/Southern California. The pool will get light use and I'm thinking of going with all Pentair equipment, but at this point I could go with any brand. I want to automate.
    Thanks,
    Jim
    22k inground 60's, 15' x 35' rectangular pool, octagonal spa, currently remodeling everything & combining systems, Intelliflo VS 3 hp pump, Hayward 4800 DE filter, Pentair MiniMax NT gas heater, Hayward MaxFlo Dual Speed pump for waterfall, Pentair EasyTouch 8 with IC60 SWG automation, SceenLogic

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    I'm a big fan of Pentair and I'm very happy with my Pentair equipment. I have a 20k pool and an IC40 SWG. It works great and has for 5 swim seasons. I just cranked it up for summer #6. I have no trouble maintains plenty of FC. But, I'll likely get an IC60 cell next time because it makes more chlorine in less time and will ultimately last longer than an IC40. Somebody did the math and you get more chlorine for your money with a 60 than a 40.
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Repairman,

    I too am a dedicated Pentair kind of guy.. The others are almost as good...

    If you plan to automate, then in my opinion it is essential that you use one brand of equipment, no matter what brand.

    Your pump, your SWCG, and your automation, all should be able to easily "talk" to each other. The best way for that to happen is for everything to be from one manufacturer.

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: size SWG?

    Thank you, Jim and Pooldv. I'll look into the 60 vs. the 40.
    22k inground 60's, 15' x 35' rectangular pool, octagonal spa, currently remodeling everything & combining systems, Intelliflo VS 3 hp pump, Hayward 4800 DE filter, Pentair MiniMax NT gas heater, Hayward MaxFlo Dual Speed pump for waterfall, Pentair EasyTouch 8 with IC60 SWG automation, SceenLogic

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Repairman,

    You can often find package deals that include the automation, the SWCG, and valve actuators all in one package at a cheaper price than buying individually..

    See this SunPlay link as an example... http://www.sunplay.com/pentair-easyt...ontrol-systems

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

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    Re: size SWG?

    I am also a Pentair fan, but to be fair, Hayward runs a close race.

    Hayward is probably the most popular SWG and if the salt cell fails, it's less expensive to replace them. However in my observation here on the fourm and from a couple friends of mine with Hayward SWG, the hayward cell life span "seems to me" to be shorter than the Pentair one.
    Divin Dave,
    IG Vinyl, 15' x 30', 3 1/2' - 6' deep, Oval, ~15K gal, Intelliclor IC40, Intelliflo VS pump, Clean and Clear 420 Filter, auto-fill-disabled, Retrofit LED Color Light, Dolphin Nautilus Robot, TF100 Test Kit, Taylor K1766 Salt Test Kit, Tftestkit Pressure Gauge.
    www.tftestkits.net Experience- it's what's learned just after you needed it most !!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    My last Hayward/Goldline T-15 cell lasted 10 years.

    Also, based upon forum reports, the Hayward/Goldline systems seem to report more accurate salt levels then the Pentair. The Pentair units seem to deviate in the salt level readouts over a large temperature range where as my AquaLogic unit reports the same salt level from 55F to 105F. I think it is just a calibration issue but something they really should fix and shouldn't be that difficult to do.

    Also, and this is just a personal preference, the Pentair cells have active electronics built into the cell while the Hayward is completely passive. This does two things, increases the price of the Pentair replacement cell over the Hayward but also decreases reliability. There have been a few cases reported on the forum where the electronics of the cells failed before the cell and that is an expensive repair.

    Overall, I have been very satisfied with the unit and if I had to do it all over again, I would stick with the Hayward.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    My IC40 is definitely inconsistent on reporting salt level at lower temps, below 70ish. And it gets worse as it gets lower. It reports salt level quite a bit lower than actual which caused me to raise my salt level above 5000 ppm the first fall, before I learned about salt tests and temperature corrections.

    My view on Hayward vs Pentair SWGs from reading lots of posts
    Hayward cells are certainly cheaper to replace
    Hayward cells do seem to fail earlier generally
    Hayward cells are more susceptible to scale, seems like Pentair has better reversing/self-cleaning circuitry
    In well balanced water Hayward will perform equally
    In scale prone, unbalanced water Pentair will outperform Hayward
    Most folks with Hayward love them
    Most folks with Pentair love them
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    2012 build and pics, 20k gal gunite, black onyx pebblesheen, OK flagstone, IntellifoVS, cart filter w/Pleatco, IC40 SWG, Solartouch, 5 12'x4' solar panels, HP50HA heat pump, 8mil solar cover, borates, TF-100 test kit, SONOS, Doheny's Discovery Robot, hot tub on bleach

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Hayward cells do seem to fail earlier generally
    Hayward cells are more susceptible to scale, seems like Pentair has better reversing/self-cleaning circuitry
    In scale prone, unbalanced water Pentair will outperform Hayward
    I haven't experienced any of that and I am not the best at keeping PH in range.

    Also, the Hayward has reversing polarity. Either the units have it, which most do, or they don't. How is Pentair "Better"?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: size SWG?

    I suspect that the problem with the Pentair salt readings is likely due to a temperature sensor that is not accurate or reliable. However, that's just speculation.

    The cell doesn't report salt reading (without automation) or cell temperature, so there's not of reliable information.
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  11. Back To Top    #11
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesW View Post
    I suspect that the problem with the Pentair salt readings is likely due to a temperature sensor that is not accurate or reliable. However, that's just speculation.
    The reported cell temp should then be much different than the pool temp. I have not seen anyone report that. Have you?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: size SWG?

    It doesn't report cell temperature. So, no way to check accuracy.

    Since some units seem to work ok, I wouldn't think that it's a calibration issue.
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  13. Back To Top    #13
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    The Hayward reports the cell temperature so I assumed the Pentair would as well.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: size SWG?

    The good thing about Hayward is that they show volts, amps, salinity and cell temperature. That makes it super easy to make sure that everything is working correctly.

    The Pentair does not show volts, amps, salinity or water temperature.

    With automation, you can monitor salinity. Cell temperature is not shown in automation. It might be shown in intellichem or intelliph.

    Newer cells have a System Status Mode, which can show approx cell hours and approx cell temp +/- 5 degrees.

    Intellichlor raises or lowers voltage to attempt to maintain a constant current. If it cannot maintain about 7.6 amps, it will shut down and light the inspect cell light. So, you can tell if it's working.

    EasyTouch has cell diagnostics, so that makes it easy to tell if there is a problem.

    For the OP: EasyTouch with an IC60 and intelliflo might be a good choice for you.

    Do you have 240 volts at the equipment?
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985 View Post
    I haven't experienced any of that and I am not the best at keeping PH in range.

    Also, the Hayward has reversing polarity. Either the units have it, which most do, or they don't. How is Pentair "Better"?
    It seems to me that we have quite a bit more threads with Hayward cells and scaling issues than we do with Pentair cells. Maybe there are more Hayward cells out there. Better might mean that it cycles more often or the blade design is better able to shed scale. The polarity (I think they call it cleaning cycle) cycle is adjustable on the Pentair SWG and I set mine to the cycle that cleans most. But, it was years ago and I can't remember.

    But, certainly both are great, work well and last a long time. I would be happy with either one.


    On the temp issue, my cell will give a low salt error when the temp drops and then low salt error goes away when the temp rises again.
    TFP Moderator
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Maybe there are more Hayward cells out there.
    I think that is what you are seeing. I think Goldline has been producing cells for a lot longer and has much larger market share.

    The polarity (I think they call it cleaning cycle) cycle is adjustable on the Pentair SWG and I set mine to the cycle that cleans most. But, it was years ago and I can't remember.
    From the manual:

    For the first thirty (30) days of cell operation, the self-cleaning cycle, is factory set to two (2) hours. After thirty (30) days has elapsed, the IntelliChlor SCG will automatically set itself to a three (3) hour self-cleaning cycle. This feature will clean the IntelliChlor SCG blades more often during the initial installation, then go to a more standard self-cleaning cycle for longer cell life.
    3 hours is better for cell life but worse for scaling. But it doesn't indicate if it can be changed or not. Perhaps through one of the controller units. The Hayward is two hours.

    But I think the majority of issues we see with short cell life it bad chemistry maintenance.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: size SWG?

    Self-Cleaning
    The self-cleaning feature reduces scale buildup on the blades of the IECG. The self-cleaning cycle tends to reduce the life of the IECG, therefore, it should be used only to the extent necessary to minimize the scale
    buildup on the blades. The self-cleaning cycle can be adjusted to run every 2, 3, 4, or 5 hours, whichever is the
    optimal for your particular pool conditions in order to minimize scale buildup but maximize the life of the IECG.
    It is factory set to two (2) hours for the first 30 days of operation, then automatically switches to three (3)
    hours. To change the self-cleaning cycle, press and hold the LESS button for three (3) seconds. The sanitizer
    output display will show the number of hours in a bar graph style. The number of output LEDs lit is the number
    of reverse hours. Pressing More or Less button will change this setting. Example: The self-clean cycle is set to run for four (4) hours and the pool owner chooses to change it to three (3) hours to optimize the blade cleaner cycle for your particular pool conditions. Press and hold the LESS button for three (3) seconds. The sanitizer output display will blank, then light up the 20%, 40%, 60% and 80% lights, four (4) total. This is a four (4) hours reverse setting. Pressing the LESS button once within ten (10) seconds will switch off the 80% light, leaving only three (3) lights on, now at a three
    (3) hours reverse setting. Wait ten (10) seconds and this mode will end automatically, returning to the original sanitizer output display.
    The Hayward is not adjustable. Pior to r 1.55 it was two hours. At r-1.55 it changed to 3 hours.
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    JoyfulNoise's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    If one has an IntelliWand and an old laptop running WinDOHs 7, you can get diagnostic info (volts, amps, temp, etc) from the cell. Why Pentair chose to hide this critical information behind an RF wall is beyond me. It could easily be communicated back to the EasyTouch panel using the serial line but they do not. There was a time on the older IC cells where you could field calibrate the salinity reading but they removed that feature after version 2 of the cell because pool owners were doing it improperly and screwing up their cells. Perhaps Pentair just doesn't want the extra service calls from consumers when the cell amps are 7.79A instead of 7.81A .... blame it all in the OCD pool nerds...


    Matt
    16k IG PebbleTec pool, 650gal spa, spillway and waterfall, 3HP IntelliFlo VS / 1.5HP WhisperFlo, Pentair QuadDE-100 filter, IC40 SWCG, MasterTemp 400k BTU/hr NG heater, KreepyKrauly suction-side cleaner Dolphin S300i robot, EasyTouch controls, city water, K-1001, K-2006 and K-1766 test kits, Mannitol test for borates

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: size SWG?

    Repairman,

    Well, if you managed to read this far you are probably thinking "what the heck is going on..."

    Everything has advantages and disadvantages... Both of these products are no different. Everyone loves what they have.

    Just the typical My Ford is better than your Chevy kind of debate...

    I don't believe that you would be disappointed with either cell...

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2, added small 3 person Caldera Spa.

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: size SWG?

    The newest versions of the cell might not include the option to change the cell reversal time. The newest manual does not include the language that I posted above.
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