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Thread: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Aerator Pics added

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    SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Aerator Pics added

    Hi all,
    Well I plumbed in the Pentair IC-40 SWCG today and fired it up this evening. A little while after turning the SWCG on white clouds came out of the return pipes - is this normal? This happend again maybe an hour later. I assume that this is the chlorine being generated. The clouds disipate quickly and the water clears up, right back to sparkling.

    I have read on this forum about some people being able to adjust the percentage of the output of the Pentair IC-40 to 9%, 10%, 15%, etc. - How? My IC-40 will only let you adjust in 20% increments (20%, 40%, 60%, 80% & 100%). I assume you have to have the Easy touch or one of the other automation devices. Is there a fairly inexpensive controller I can buy for this? I only need to control the SWCG, as I have nothing else to automate.

    Also, I have been reading about borates - I want to add 50 ppm to my pool, but don't want to do the 20 team mule & muratic acid method. I want to do it with a PH netural product - got any reccommendations? How much of the reccommended product would I put in my pool (size listed below). I am not worried about the cost of doing it this way. I just want to get the borates in the pool and forget about it for a while.

    What is the best way to test salt level myself? I have ordered the TF100 test kit and the salt strips, but being a technical kind of guy, I would like a digital Salt meter I am looking at the LaMotte Salt/TDS/Temp pocket meter (part # 1749) see info here http://www.lamotte.com/pool_spa_wate...ketesters.html
    Do I even need to test the Salt level (ppm) that often? Am I just being too anal. Sorry for all the questions, but I am new to salt pools and want to make sure I am doing everything right, and within my power, to insure that I have a trouble free pool as much as possible this summer.

    Thanks,
    NAUIdvr1
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    The white clouds are probably hydrogen gas bubbles, though they could be calcium clouding. What kind of pump do you have? Low flow rates often make the bubbles far more visible than they are at higher flow rates. Also, you should post a full set of water test numbers, so we can double check for calcium clouding risk.

    I believe that the Sun Touch automation system is the least expensive one that can control the percentage.

    Boric acid is a good way to add borates that is more or less PH neutral. It is available from The Chemistry Store on the Internet.

    The salt test strips from TFTestKits.Net are better than that salt meter. Most people usually only need to test salt levels perhaps twice a season, and great precision is not required.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    I will post a Full set of water numbers later today. I have not received the TF100 test kit yet so I will be posting numbers from a pool store.

    I found Haviland Salt Support for adding Borates (it is pH netural) and I can get it today, I can get in 50 & 100 lb buckets - Anyone know how much I will need with the pool info listed below (25,000 Gallon). Thanks!
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    Borates - using Haviland Salt Support

    To all,
    I have found Haviland Salt Support for adding Borates (it is pH netural) and I can get it today, I can get in 25 & 50 lb buckets - Anyone know how much I will need with the pool info listed below (25,000 Gallon). Thanks!
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    Guest

    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nauidvr1
    Hi all,
    Well I plumbed in the Pentair IC-40 SWCG today and fired it up this evening. A little while after turning the SWCG on white clouds came out of the return pipes - is this normal? This happend again maybe an hour later. I assume that this is the chlorine being generated. The clouds disipate quickly and the water clears up, right back to sparkling.
    As Jason said, most likely hydrogen bubbles.

    Also, I have been reading about borates - I want to add 50 ppm to my pool, but don't want to do the 20 team mule & muratic acid method. I want to do it with a PH netural product - got any reccommendations?
    Proteam Supreme Plus or boric acid.

    How much of the reccommended product would I put in my pool (size listed below). I am not worried about the cost of doing it this way. I just want to get the borates in the pool and forget about it for a while.

    What is the best way to test salt level myself? I have ordered the TF100 test kit and the salt strips, but being a technical kind of guy, I would like a digital Salt meter I am looking at the LaMotte Salt/TDS/Temp pocket meter (part # 1749) see info here http://www.lamotte.com/pool_spa_wate...ketesters.html
    Stay away from the LaMotte handhelds! Junk! Oakton makes some decent handhelds in their "Testrs" line. The single test models are a bit more dependable than the multi test models, IMHO.

    http://www.4oakton.com/products.asp?parent=50&prod=51
    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... &TotRec=11
    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... &TotRec=13
    Realize that meters are going to need constant calibration against standard solutions (which get expensive and, IMHO, is more trouble than it's worth unless you have to check a LOT of pools every day such as a service route or a pool store (which is where I hve used meters)
    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... lue=detail
    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... &TotRec=11
    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... &TotRec=11
    and some of the probe tips require special care (such as pH tips) and that all tips do need to be replaced since they 'wear out'.

    http://www.4oakton.com/proddetail.asp?p ... &TotRec=13
    Note that the replacement sensor is only $20 less than the entire meter!


    Do I even need to test the Salt level (ppm) that often?
    If you are not having a lot of rain I would test monthly. If it's raining a lot I would test a bit more often. Your salt, CYA , and borates will decrease with backwashing (which is why I like cartridge filters with SWGs) so you should monitor them all.

    Sorry for all the questions, but I am new to salt pools and want to make sure I am doing everything right, and within my power, to insure that I have a trouble free pool as much as possible this summer.

    Thanks,
    NAUIdvr1
    This thread might be helpful. It contains more info than the pool school article.
    water-balance-tips-for-a-swg-t3663.html

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nauidvr1
    I will post a Full set of water numbers later today. I have not received the TF100 test kit yet so I will be posting numbers from a pool store.

    I found Haviland Salt Support for adding Borates (it is pH netural) and I can get it today, I can get in 50 & 100 lb buckets - Anyone know how much I will need with the pool info listed below (25,000 Gallon). Thanks!
    Dosage should be on the container. If I am not mistaken, Salt support also contains CYA but I don't know how much. Otherwise it is identical to Supreme Plus (Haviland owns Proteam.)
    You still need to test the borate level because the dosage on the container will only bring you up to around 30 ppm (2 lbs per 1000 gallons). Proteam had dosage charts for the Supreme line on their website but I don't know if the Salt Support uses the same dosage. It is probably close enough for government work.
    http://www.proteampoolcare.com/prod_pdf ... eChart.pdf

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Borates - using Haviland Salt Support

    You can use the boric acid setting in my Pool Calculator to calculates amounts of Salt Support to add. To raise borates from 0 to 50 in 25,000 gallons requires about 60 lbs.

    You can either use 50 lbs, and have a slightly lower, but still perfectly acceptable borate level, or you can get 100 lbs and have enough left over to maintain the borate level for the next several years.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Borates - using Haviland Salt Support

    I answered you in your other thread. Multiple threads will not get questions answered faster and can create confusion.

    {I merged the topics. JasonLion}

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    Thanks. I started the other thread because I thought it was a different subject, sorry 'bout that.
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    This could have been a separate question, but you asked it in both places. That result was that I answered in one place, and waterbear answered in a different place. That creates confusion, so I merged the topics.

    Sometimes things really are separate subjects, sometimes they look separate, but also have a lot of overlap. Keeping everything in one topic gives us more context for answering your questions, which can be very useful sometimes.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    Water numbers as of 2pm June 15th are below:
    FAC - 5
    TAC - 5
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 110
    CH - 270
    CYA - 40 (I just finished disolving 16 lbs late last night, so this number may not be good yet)
    Salt - 3900
    Borates - ? they could not test for them, but I add Supreme Optimizer last year so there is some in the water just don't know how much yet.

    Also, these numbers are from a pool store, as I have not receive my TF100 test kit yet, but will soon.
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - have a few questions

    P.S. Jason - I also purchase your Pool Calculator iPhone App - That is really neat, now I have a chemical calculator poolside!
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    I have received my TF100 test kit and the results are below:

    FC - 6
    CC - 1.5
    TC - ??
    - how do I calcutalte this?
    pH - 7.2
    TA -180 (after this test I added a 1/2 inch eyeball on one of my returns & have it bubbling the surface for aeration)
    CH - 480 (did this test twice as pool store had this as 300, is this a problem?)
    CYA - 50 - how long must I wait before all the CYA I disolved in the pool, on Sunday Night June 14th, will register on the test?
    Salt - 3500 (after this test I added two 40 lb bags to bring this up a bit)
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    See my comments in Bold:

    Quote Originally Posted by nauidvr1
    I have received my TF100 test kit and the results are below:

    FC - 6
    CC - 1.5
    TC - ?? - how do I calcutalte this?
    FC + CC = TC. You need to shock with liquid chlorine until the CC is .5 or less.

    pH - 7.2
    TA -180 (after this test I added a 1/2 inch eyeball on one of my returns & have it bubbling the surface for aeration)
    Muratic Acid lowers PH and TA, and then aeration raises the PH back up. Read the process again in pool school.

    CH - 480 (did this test twice as pool store had this as 300, is this a problem?)
    Only if you let your PH get above 7.8. Do not use any calcium products.

    CYA - 50 - how long must I wait before all the CYA I disolved in the pool will register on the test?
    About 5-6 days.

    Salt - 3500 (after this test I added two 40 lb bags to bring this up a bit)
    What level does your unit require? I would think this level is ok.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    Dear frustratedpoolmom,
    Not quite understanding the reason why I have to shock to get my CC to .5 - won't shocking the pool raise the FC sky high? How much liquid bleach or chlorine do I need?

    TA - According to Jason's pool calculator on my iPhone it says "To lower you TA reduce pH to 7.0-7.2 with MA then aerate to increase pH" - since my pH is already that low I assumed that all I had to do was aerate (I guess I read that wrong..!). How much Muratic Acid must I add? cause the pool calc is not telling me that.

    Salt - my unit requires 3500-4200 so I wanted to be near the upper end.

    Thanks for the reply.
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    Aerating your pool will bring the Ph up but TA will stay where it is. You need to keep adding acid to keep the Ph in the 7.0-7.2 range while continuing to aerate. You can let the Ph go higher, say 7.5 or 7.4, before adding more acid but it won't be as effective as keeping it in the 7.0-7.2 range.
    11000 Gals, Intelliflo, Sta-Rite Cartridge, Polaris 360

    Pool I built in my old house: my-new-pool-build-t4534.html

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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    Quote Originally Posted by cobra46
    Aerating your pool will bring the Ph up but TA will stay where it is. You need to keep adding acid to keep the Ph in the 7.0-7.2 range while continuing to aerate. You can let the Ph go higher, say 7.5 or 7.4, before adding more acid but it won't be as effective as keeping it in the 7.0-7.2 range.
    My pH is already in that range, if I add acid I'm going to drop it further. I assume (by playing around with the pool calculator) that I need to add 4 gallons of Muratic Acid to bring down the TA but that will also lower my pH by about 4.92 so I need to add soda ash to bring my pH back up - BUT this will also increase my TA - am I fighting a losing battle?
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

  18. Back To Top    #18
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    You need to read the How To Lower TA article at Pool School and do what it says.

    If you added soda ash to bring the PH back up, the TA would also come up by more than the acid lowered it by.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  19. Back To Top    #19
    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    Yes, read the article on lowering TA and follow the steps exactly.

    As for shocking, anytime your CC is above .5, you will need to shock to bring it down. Raise your FC with liquid chlorine or bleach to shock level for your CYA, according to the CYA chart. It's 50 now, but you said you added 16 lbs? What was your target? I would shock to your targeted CYA level.... refer to the CYA chart. Use the pool calc to determine how much chlorine that is.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Re: SWCG Installed today - a few questions - Water #'s added

    frustratedpoolmom,
    My target CYA is 80, The tested level is after I have add the 16 lbs, but it just finished disolving Sunday night, so I know in the next few days the reading will stabilize and be higher. So I will use my target CYA on the chart to figure out the bleach needed. Looks like my Shock FC level needed is 30ppm. SO I will adjust to that.

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I think I messed up the TA & CH testing becasuse I took a sample in to pool store and ask them to test it. They tested the water and came up with a TA of 100 & CH of 290. Then I told them of my testing results. They invited me behind the counter and let me perform the test again and got the same results they did. So I might have a few things to learn about the water tests, using the TF100 kit, before I beleive the results I get? Any pointers for me on this?
    18' x 36' inground vinyl pool - 25,000 gallons - Salt (SWCG) Pentair Intellichlor IC40
    Whisper-Flo 3/4 HP full rated 2-speed pump
    Hayward Sand filter S244S (filled with Zeolite or Zeosand)

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