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Thread: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

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    Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    20,000 gallon pool, one skimmer with cheap Baracuda cleaner attached 99% of the time, Hayward Max Flo 1 HP motor/pump, Hayward Filter (20 GPM Filtration Rate, 50 PSI, Design Flow Rate 62 GPM), Arizona. Run 12 hours in summer (24 hrs if goes green), 3 hours in winter.IMG_20170225_150055.jpg

    After 20+ years and over a year of humming before starting, I think my pump motor is needing to be replaced. I turned it on last night and it hummed and it shut itself off, but it did go on this morning with the timer. I think it is time to replace the whole thing.

    I'm thoroughly confused about what to replace it with. Went to local store and variable speed pumps (Pentair) was $1085 installed. Rebuilt single speed motor only $214 (no installation) - seems high.

    On-line brand new Harris ProForce motor/pumps are $120 - $150, but can't find too much about them - Amazon shows good reviews for the most part. Where do you get "O" rings/ baskets for it? Hayward SuperPump, single speed is $375 with tax.

    $800+ for a variable speed if I install it myself but I'm not happy about only getting a 60 day warranty due to self installation. Local pool store will install for $1085 (includes tax and everything), pus if I buy in the next 2 days I can get $100 rebate from electric company. One year warranty on a $1000 purchase doesn't instill confidence either.

    Dual speed is out of the question because I'd have to manually flip a switch or they are almost as expensive as a variable.

    So I use my electric companies on-line calculator to see how much I'd save going to a variable speed motor/pump. Estimate is about $72/year. So compared to the Hayward SuperPump it would take almost 9 years to recoup the money spent on a Pentair variable speed that has a one year warranty.

    I am also concerned with the variable working well at low speed with pool cleaner attached. Am I missing something?

    Should I get the cheap Harris and hope variable come down in price or get the Hayward SuperPump? Thoughts? Spent all day researching this.

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    pabeader's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Welcome to TFP.
    The easy answer is to go to Inyopools.com they have just about any pump or motor you could want. All the seal kits too. And very knowledgeable tech support.
    I sure that other folks will be along soon to give more direct answers. I must say that I am a bit surprised that you such a small savings. You must have fairly inexpensive electric.
    The beauty of the VS is that you can adjust the speed to exactly what is needed to make the cleaner do its thing. No waste that way.
    I did notice that you mention having issues with a green pool now and then. That is also something we are very good at correcting and can even show how to not have it happen anymore.
    Bob - INTEX 12x24 owner (not setup yet), 'New to me' Kreepy Krauly Sand Shark, Test kit: TF-100 w/Speed Stir

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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    All in all, a VS doesn't sound like the best choice for you, and I love having mine. I never had one, but can't imagine your cleaner would do anything but suffer on low speeds, but I would tell you not to pass off the dual speed option. It's very likely that you could run your pool low speed much of the time, and reduce the amount of it. If you are around your pool much at all, changing speeds will be nothing to add in terms of regular maintenance. They always suggest 8-12 hours a day, and we prove over and over, that doing so simply isn't needed.

    The getting Green issue is entirely separate, and if you want that to stop we can show you the way. Up front there is a bit to learn, but if you read around here you'll find hundreds and hundreds of people following TFP principles who never have that problem, and couldn't be happier. Most of the time, they end up saving loads of money too.
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick_B View Post
    All in all, a VS doesn't sound like the best choice for you, and I love having mine. I never had one, but can't imagine your cleaner would do anything but suffer on low speeds, but I would tell you not to pass off the dual speed option. It's very likely that you could run your pool low speed much of the time, and reduce the amount of it. If you are around your pool much at all, changing speeds will be nothing to add in terms of regular maintenance. They always suggest 8-12 hours a day, and we prove over and over, that doing so simply isn't needed.

    The getting Green issue is entirely seperate, and if you want that to stop we can show you the way. Up front there is a bit to learn, but if you read around here you'll find hundreds and hundreds of people following TFP principles who never have that problem, and couldn't be happier. Most of the time, they end up saving loads of money too.
    What do u mean u don't have to run your pump 12 hours a day? We were told
    To run at 1875 7a to 7p. 2400 9-4 for the SWG. We have a VS pump and our temperatures here in Houston are very warm

    Our neighbors ran their pump at night and got algae




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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    I run my 3hp VS pump at 1100 rpm for skimming and making chlorine with the SWG. It uses 150 watts and at 10.25c/kWh it costs less than 12 bucks per month to run it 24x7. Assuming you have a basic pool the Pentair Superflo VS or Hayward Maxflo VS are both 1-1/2 hp pumps that would work well.

    Add your pool info to your signature so that we can help you better, here's how, Pool School - Read This BEFORE You Post

    Getting algae or a green pool is purely a function of insufficient chlorine for the CYA level in the pool, FC/CYA Chart. Keep it at target at all times to avoid algae.
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    Patrick_B's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by DMS2014 View Post
    What do u mean u don't have to run your pump 12 hours a day? We were told
    To run at 1875 7a to 7p. 2400 9-4 for the SWG. We have a VS pump and our temperatures here in Houston are very warm

    Our neighbors ran their pump at night and got algae
    Exactly what I said, and your neighbors issues had other factors involved. If you want to comment or discuss this further, please start a new thread and I will come there. Otherwise we will derail this one and interfere with the OP.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    I'm not too concerned about the algae, it seems to happen every year in AUG/SEP, the rest of the year I have no problem. I probably just don't stay on top of the pool well enough.

    Everyone seems to be raving about the variable speed pumps, I just can't seem to justify the price. My electricity varies from 7.01 cents/kwh to 22.06 kwh. I am on a Time Of Use Plan (in summer I try not to use much electricity between 1pm - 9pm) and run my pump during Off-Peak hours so at the most I would pay 7.21 kwh (most expensive off peak price in July and Aug) unless it goes green in AUG/SEP. Even with a variable speed pump, I'd try to not run it at all during On-Peak hours (1pm-9pm). My electric company says to run pump one hour for every 10 degrees (11 hours if 110 degrees) and that seems to work pretty well.

    Anyone know about those inexpensive Harris pumps?

    Can I rebuild/repair the motor myself? (I'm sort of handy.)
    20,000 gallons, in-ground, plaster, Hayward sand filter, single speed Hayward Max Flo 1 HP pump/motor, built around 1978, use Aquacheck strips to test, Baracuda cleaner, one skimmer. Arizona.

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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Link to variable Speed vs. single speed calculator: Use SRP's free Pool Pump Calculator
    20,000 gallons, in-ground, plaster, Hayward sand filter, single speed Hayward Max Flo 1 HP pump/motor, built around 1978, use Aquacheck strips to test, Baracuda cleaner, one skimmer. Arizona.

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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Thank you, looks like a new motor is only $129 inyopools.com!
    20,000 gallons, in-ground, plaster, Hayward sand filter, single speed Hayward Max Flo 1 HP pump/motor, built around 1978, use Aquacheck strips to test, Baracuda cleaner, one skimmer. Arizona.

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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    just a small input, consider the pentair v/s pump is pretty bulletproof [ ive installed many & have yet to have a problem , the pump wet end [ the part that does the moving of water ] is a 3.0 hp whereas the motor is rated at 7.5 - 8 hp 3 phase , the mfg is able to get 3 phase by the design of the motor,
    what this means is that typicaly the pump can move more water at a lower speed an at a great savings of elec. along with that it operates at a lower noise level , the pump is programable stand alone pump with the high temps you experience in your area you can program the pump to run 10 - 12 - 14 hrs per day and
    expect great savings even runing 24 / 7 at a lower rpm is possible & run it at a higher speed for say 2 - 3 hrs for your cleaner to work should that be necessary. yes the buy in price is higher but in my opinion well worth it.

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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevie3x View Post
    just a small input, consider the pentair v/s pump is pretty bulletproof [ ive installed many & have yet to have a problem , the pump wet end [ the part that does the moving of water ] is a 3.0 hp whereas the motor is rated at 7.5 - 8 hp 3 phase , the mfg is able to get 3 phase by the design of the motor,
    what this means is that typicaly the pump can move more water at a lower speed an at a great savings of elec. along with that it operates at a lower noise level , the pump is programable stand alone pump with the high temps you experience in your area you can program the pump to run 10 - 12 - 14 hrs per day and
    expect great savings even runing 24 / 7 at a lower rpm is possible & run it at a higher speed for say 2 - 3 hrs for your cleaner to work should that be necessary. yes the buy in price is higher but in my opinion well worth it.
    It's just not worth it for me to go to variable because of cost and warranty.
    20,000 gallons, in-ground, plaster, Hayward sand filter, single speed Hayward Max Flo 1 HP pump/motor, built around 1978, use Aquacheck strips to test, Baracuda cleaner, one skimmer. Arizona.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    I was curious so I did some math
    10c/kWh 12 hours per day and 24 hours per day
    So, 150 watt pump running 12 hours per day costs 65 bucks per year vs 1500 watt pump costs 648 bucks.

    12 hours 24 hours
    watts 0.1 x 12 mo 0.1 x 12 mos
    150 $5.40 $64.80 $10.80 $129.60
    500 $18.00 $216.00 $36.00 $432.00
    1000 $36.00 $432.00 $72.00 $864.00
    1500 $54.00 $648.00 $108.00 $1,296.00
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Doesn't seem to me you are really comparing apples to apples. A single speed running 12 hours/day is still way too much run time. If you assume 2 hours/day, which most pools could get away with, it is 1/6th that cost. $65 vs $110.

    But for a small bump in price, you could get a two speed and save almost as much as the VS.
    Mark
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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Pump Motor Failing - Go cheap or variable speed?

    Yeah, that's right, I was just curious and thought I'd add it here.
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