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Thread: Please review plan

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    Please review plan

    Hello - I have owned a home with a pool for 1.5 years. We currently have a company doing maintenance, and I like them. I am going to start now taking more ownership of the pool water and maintenance, and so I have spent a lot of time doing research here. I have a draft of a plan, and I know I will be missing things...

    First, the pool is large and about 13 years old. It has original Pebble Tech. The pool has a SWG that was just inspected and in good shape, a large newer sand filter, and a new variable speed pump.. We don't get much debri at all as we are above most trees. We do however get a ton of direct sunlight. The first year the pool was awful (foreclosure). We did acid wash and some pebble tech repairs, and had a good first season, although we didnt open the pool in 2015 until late May. Overall, a good year.

    The second year, we opened the pool earlier, and ended up with a couple algae problems including Black Algae, looks like dime to quarter sized black spots with a slimy surface.. The pool service company was fully in charge of chemicals, etc... Moving forward, I will be more involved, and expect to collaborate with the pool company.

    This year, I decided to open pool early and try and do whatever we can to be better.

    Good news/bad news.....the black algae is far less than when we closed pool, but there is still some there. The Pool company 5 days ago put in Black Algaecide and phosphate remover, and came back 3 days ago and added four bottle of shock chlorine. I am brushing the pool with a vinyl brush, going over the black algae many times, and backwashing the sand filter every couple days. I am running the pump 24x7 at 3,250 rams.. Our booster pump has failed, and so our polaris auto vacuum is not usable.

    After research:

    - I learned we should have had a different algaecide in the pool over the winter - will do that next year.

    Moving forward......

    - I need a test kit.... I know there is a thread here for these.

    - At what point should I start doing things to get Pool Chemistry to optimal levels - for example, should I leave the copper based algaecide do it's thing for a while?

    Once I start, I believe the order of operation is to test and adjust : TA, pH, then not sure....

    When do I test and add for Borate, Salt, FC, CH, CYA???

    I know I need a good auto/robot pool cleaner.
    Do I need a stainless steel brush for the black algae, or is the vinyl brush ok?

    I would greatly appreciate the review of my plan...

    Thanks!
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Here is our link for black algae: Pool School - Black Algae

    I wish you had not used the copper based algaecide That can cause more harm than good over time. Too much copper can cause staining of the pool and blonde hair. BUT you did so we will move on from there.

    -Test kit-look in my siggy for the test kit you need. Add the XL to it as you will need it to clear the black algae.

    Here is the order of importance:

    1.Test water making sure the pump has been running for at least 30 mins.

    2.Share your results here.

    Once you have tested and shared we will go from there.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Please review plan

    HHello, while I wait for my test kit to arrive, I went to a local pool supply shop to buy a Wire Brush. I took advantage of their free water testing, and will share results here. I know stores are not as reliable as self testing, but here goes. The guy at the store did tell me the fact the pool company lowered phosphates was good, but putting in chlorine shock two days after the algaecide was bad, as it kills the algaecide function.... who knows...

    Anyways, here are the results:

    FAC - 0, low
    TAC - 0, low
    Salt - 2,000 ppm, low
    CH - 200, OK
    CYA - 60, OK
    TA - 100, OK
    pH - 8.0, High
    Acid Demand - 5
    Copper - 10 ppm, not terrible, but pay attention to it
    Phosphates - 100

    The following were his recommendations, and I ONLY share these for reference, as I am not doing anything other that what I learn here on the forum. He recommend first working on pH by adding 2 qt of Muriatic acid. He said next he recommends Supercholorination by adding 5 pounds, 4 oz Chor Brite, wait 24 hours, then ad one quart of this: Leslie's Black Algae Killer High-Powered Algaecide.

    I am brushing the algae a few times a day with the wire brush, it is generally in the corners (where the floor of the pool meets the wall) in the deep end....

    Thanks!
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Re: Please review plan

    Welcome aboard!
    You'll find lots of help on this site and save even more $$ .

    i suggest you go ahead and get yourself at test kit. The TF-100 is a great one. Get a Speed Stir as well.
    The sooner the better. The pool store test results aren't very reliable.
    You'll need to post your test results when you get them.
    Post a few pictures, too.
    Many have been in your shoes at one time.
    you'll have this pool crystal clear before too long.

    15K IG Plaster (1991), Pentair
    FNS 60- DE;Centurion 2.20HP, PB4 Booster Pump. spa spillover, Polaris 380, TF-100; SpeedStir​


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    Re: Please review plan

    Thanks. My test kit is on order, I got the TF-100 XL and Speed Stir. The water is very clear, I would like to get started on getting my chemicals right, especially with the evidence of the black algae, I want to brush frequently and let the water try and do it's thing....
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Wow. THat's a super high level of copper. As Kimkats would say-"I have a sad for you" Can you do any drains and refills? Please don't use ANY algaecides from this point on. We rarely recommend them.

    I agree with the pool store on the MA to bring the pH down. The lower pH will help bring the TA down a smidgeon too.

    You should have your test kit by Wednesday or so I bet... so until then can you just add a gallon of plain, unscented household bleach to the pool each day as you brush? Your brushing now may be disrupting the black algae but without any chlorine in the water it won't kill squat.

    Do NOT use powdered potions the pool store is trying to sell you- all that does is add yet more CYA to your pool along with the chlorine unless it is a calcium containing powder. Your calcium is a bit low but we'll work on that individually- compound products are avoided with newbies since its easier to monitor and change things individually at this point.

    Yippee
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: Please review plan

    Thanks Yippee. I am going to invest in copper test kit. I do fill my pool the last three years using our well water, but that is conditioned by our water softener. I want to find out the level of Copper in the water coming in to the pool. i will also find out how much copper was added via the amount and brand of the black algaecide.

    If copper level in the water coming in is low, I don't mind draining and refilling, especially now before I add sale, and other things for the season.
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    PLEASE tell me that copper reading of 10 is a typo..............that is a LOT of copper. 1.0??? .10???

    I would take some more water to them and have them retest the copper unless you see you mis-typed.

    Please follow what Yippee said above and yes I do have a sad for you if that copper is really that high.

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Please review plan

    Ya know, I may have made an error on the copper. I will check again, as I went from memory of the test result the guy showed me. Very sorry!!!

    I did the Muratic acid, and then will do the bleach in the morning when I scrub. Hoping my test kit gets here by end of the week. BUT - I am very happy to get started.

    Thank you!
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Re: Please review plan

    Ok, so my copper is not 10, it is 0.4 ppm. I am going to follow previous advice on this thread of brushing with wire and adding a gallon of bleach per day until my test kit arrives

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Ok, well darn it, 0.4 is sort of high too

    If you don't have a heater, most likely the copper all came from the added algaecides. Are you able to drain and refill to lessen the copper? The other alternative if you're getting stains and such is the use of sequestrants which bind with the copper and keep it from staining. Its still in the water though, and the sequestrants have to be re-added at times.

    Otherwise, to care for your algae problems - get your test kit results to us and let us look. Post them like this (easier for us to read):
    FC
    CC
    pH
    TA
    CH
    CYA

    Thanks!

    Yippee
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Okay! That is better! Man, you had my heart rate up with that 10! We can work with that. Listen to Yippee!

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Please review plan

    Good news - I received my TFT XL test kit, speed stir, bromine test strips, and salt strips today. Here is what I have been doing the last several days. Brushing several times a day with wire brush, and adding one gallon of 10% Pool Chlorine. The first day, I did 2 gallons of Chlorine. In brushing, it appears some of the black algae is breaking down a bit. I also noticed some evidence of white buildup on the ledge/step that goes around the deep end. I brushed it but it didn't dissipate.

    NO COPPER - I went back to the store and they tested again and showed zero copper. I ordered a really good Copper test kit, and got same result, zero copper.

    Here are my results:

    Wednesday March 1, 5pm

    FC - 12.5
    The next chlorine test result in the kit was 0, which I think means either CC is 12.5, or CC is 0, and total chlorine is 12.5
    pH - between 7.8 and 8.2
    TA - 150
    CH - 750 This was based on the first drop that made the solution look "blue" per the instructions. There were several drops placed when it was red, then it went purple for several drops, I stopped at the first drop that looked blue.
    CYA - between 30 and 40, closer to 30. This test involved visual determination of when I couldn't see a black dot at the bottom. When I stopped I could still tell there was s sticker at the bottom, but it looked very light grey.

    Thursday March 2nd, 5pm

    FC - 7.5
    CC - 0.5
    pH - between 7.8 and 8.2
    TA - 140
    CH - 475 - still not confident in the test, but more confident this time
    CYA - 20 - i watched a video on how to read this test accurately, so I am more confident with today's result being accurate.

    I also tested Bromine and Salt

    Bromine is 0, as expected
    Salt is 2,460


    I would like to try and do Bromates this year in addition to SWG, etc... and am open to recommendation on steps to take now.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by ramsfan; 03-02-2017 at 06:17 PM. Reason: new results
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    That is awesome news on the copper! I hope YOUR test shows the same thing when it gets there!

    CYA-needs to be higher-shoot for 40 to start with. We will go from there as needed

    PH-needs to be lower-shoot for 7.5

    TA-we will work on that in a little while

    -Bromates-do you mean Borates as seen in this link: Borates - Why and How

    I have some "homework" for you. Please add your awesome test kit to your siggy.

    Test your "fill" water aka the water you add to the pool when needed. This is a good base line to know so you know what you might need to do when you add water. Don't bother testing CYA as that has to be added.

    I also want you to keep a log of your test results. I use a small notebook (with my fill water test results on the cover). I make note of big weather events. I found this really helps me keep track of any patterns and I can see a problem before it has a chance to do much. There is an excel form on here somewhere but I am old so use paper and pen LOL

    Kim
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Dang Kim I was just starting to type... you beat me to the punch line

    I pretty much agree with what Kim is saying. Each time you add MA to lower your pH, your TA will be brought down a bit too. So that is kind of a bonus in your case now, right?

    For that "blue" of the CH test, you may see temporary swirls of blue and the color goes back again to the original, but keep adding slowly one drop of reagent at a time until the water turns blue (not gray) and stays there. Then of course one more drop to see if it changes any further and if it does NOT, you count the drops but NOT that last one.

    How much direct sun do you get on that pool? For a SWG, you want your CYA to be higher (of course) but if your pool is on the shady side you don't have to go to the top of the desired range (for example, 60 instead of 70-80) But don't go raising it too much yet since you're dealing with algae. This allows your lower FC levels to be therapeutic at lower levels.

    How's that black algae looking? Brushing it helping? Keep an eye on your FC level. You seem to have lost a significant amount between the first and today. Take it back up based on the SLAM level chart- SLAM

    Keep up the good work! Get that siggy line updated and thanks for the heads up on your progress

    Yippee
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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    Re: Please review plan

    will update sig later, have to run to do some volunteer work. My pool does seem to get a lot of sun, but not sure really. We are up very high, so I get very few leaves and debri. we get sun from sunrise to probably 4 pm. I would say sun is the big effect.

    The black algae is interesting. As you know, i was brushing with no FC, and i may have caused it to spead a bit. Ever since you said put chlorine in, it has NOT spread. Some of the spots look to be compromised, a few are still solid black. I am getting better at brushing every day with practice.
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

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    Mod Squad kimkats's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    I would hold off on the Borates for right now. It is best you get the pool clean and stable first so you can really learn your pool without adding anything extra to it. Give it about a month before doing it. Make sure you do not have pets that drink out of the water as it is not good for them. My cats are why I do not have borates.

    Kim (sorry yip! we are doing it again I am SO glad to see you!)
    TFP Moderator 33x52 round AG 25,600 gals Sand Filter 1.5hp Pump - 2 Speed, SLAM, Pool School, Recommended Levels, Recommended Chemicals, Pool Math, Chlorine/CYA Chart, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Quote Originally Posted by ramsfan View Post
    The black algae is interesting. As you know, i was brushing with no FC, and i may have caused it to spead a bit. Ever since you said put chlorine in, it has NOT spread. Some of the spots look to be compromised, a few are still solid black. I am getting better at brushing every day with practice.
    Did you get a metal brush? Initially you had a plastic one, but I think it needs a bit more *ooomph* that a steel brush will give it. That and enough chlorine should slay the black algae beast.

    Yippee
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Please review plan

    Yippee so some info.

    I have not mentioned water temp yet, it is in low 50's.
    Yes, I got a steel brush been brushing 2x per day.
    The black algae has stopped getting worse, and many of the spots are showing signs of deterioration. For example, many of them are not dark black anymore, more lighter color with some splotchy white spots. I have to think this is progress. If it never gets worse than it is now, I will be content for this season, but I am going to keep owrkin
    I think the pool gets a fairly high amount of sun. The pool is not shaded until about 4pm in the afternoon. Our backyard faces east, so sunrise starts some sun, and it intensifies until about 4pm-5pmwhen the house blocks the sun. We get very little debri.

    I add half gallon muriatic acid this evening, and tested four hours later, pH is 7.5. I will mess with cholorine and CYA tomorrow.
    In Ground Pool, ~40k gallons, Pebble Tech, Intelliflo iQ60 SWG, RayPak 406 Gas Heater, Sand Filter, Variable Speed pump, seems to get alot of sun, but no debri. built in 2006. TFT XL Test Kit, with SpeedStir. Water from hose March.2017 used to fill FC=0, pH=7.2, CH= 375-400, TA=240.

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad YippeeSkippy's Avatar
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    Re: Please review plan

    Yeah, sounds like your pool gets a lot of sun actually. But start slow with that CYA...remember that as you raise your CYA, your chlorine requirements go up also. You're still dealing with the black algae so taking it slow will help. You'll be losing a bit daily, as expected, so you need to cover that loss each day and not let the FC level ever drop below your basement level. A few ppm over your desired level is okay. I'd rather have a few too much than not enough, y'know?

    Good job on the pH. Over the weekend can you perform these tests to monitor your changes: FC, CC, pH, TA...let me know how they read. Don't bother with the CH and CYA unless you added any or exchanged water. They shouldn't have changed.

    Yip
    Maddie :) 12K Fiberglass IG, Infinity 4000 automatic cover, SWCG, Hayward Sand Filter, Hayward 1.5 Pump, Doheny Discovery Robot, Savi Melody LED pool lights, outdoor speakers and other assorted doo-dads. Sundance Altamar Hot Tub.
    Skippy's Pool Cooler --> Skippy's New Fountain Our Build --> Our Pool Solved Our Sloping Yard

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