Polaris 280 w Intelliflo VS pump and without Booster pump

[vulcan13]

Hi Folks,
Trying to bypass the booster pump and run the 280 directly off the Intellflo 2 VST Variable Speed pump (VSP).
Here is the experimental setup and results. Thoughts and guidance appreciated.

The return from the intelliflo to filter was disconnected. (have a union there, so just disconnected it)
Hard Plumbed ( w 3/4" Sch 40 piping + a 1.5" union+ 1.5"-3/4 reducer ) the return of the VST direct to the dedicate return line for the 280.

Observation:
1- When trying to prime @ 2400 RPM: the pump does not fully prime. The pump strainer pot is only filled about 3" from the bottom. however,
2- The Polaris 280 is crawling in the pool at the same at a very low speed.
3- Putting the return back to filter, pump primes normally.

Questions:
1- is the 3/4 plumbing directly after the Intelliflo, not allowing the air to escape out and causing priming issues?
2- Would using a 3 way valve from the return work? 1would go to the polaris 280, the other would go to the FNS60. I would prime with the output of 3 way diverted to FNS and after being primed, would direct the flow to the 280.
3- Has any one been successfully able to run the 280 off the VSP?

LLAP

 

[vulcan13]

Apologies, but is this not an interesting topic for folks here?

 

[jmastron]

It's very interesting to me, as I have the same equipment (Intelliflo VS and Polaris 280 with booster), and have thought about trying this out, so I'm glad you have

The first issue I see is tapping off pre-filter -- is the booster you're trying to bypass before or after the filter? Mine is after, and I'd be concerned about debris small enough to go through the pump strainer clogging the Polaris jets. I don't know why it would lead to the pump not priming though. If I was to try a 3-way valve (I actually plumbed one in for this purpose or for solar), it would be after the filter.

Fundamentally, I understand the Polaris booster pump to be optimized to deliver a high pressure at a low volume; the IntelliFlo may or may not be able to approximate that. There are Polaris units that don't require the higher pressure (e.g. the 360), but my impression is that they don't always work quite as well.

 

[Jimrahbe]

LLAP,

I doubt your lack of response was due to interest, but just due to the fact that this time of year we have a lot fewer members visiting the board. Fewer members equals fewer responses..

I'm not an expert in flow dynamics by any means, but I can't see the Intelliflo every priming or working properly with only a 3/4" pipe on the output side. It just cannot push enough water through that small a pipe to operate.

It would be interesting to see if your idea of having a Jandy valve set to allow water to flow to both the filter and the 3/4" pipe and then adjusting to the Jandy to see if the cleaner will work. To be honest, I doubt it will, but why not try and see what happens. But as jmaston says above, bypassing the filter is not a good idea..

Booster pumps are made to supply high pressure through small pipes, the Intelliflo was not.

Keep in mind that I have a Robot and believe that pressure side cleaners are like the old black rotary-dial telephone.. last centuries technology.. So, I'm not the best person to ask...

Let's see if we can get some more comments...

Thanks for posting and sorry for the delay,

Jim R.

 

[pooldv]

Apologies, but is this not an interesting topic for folks here?

With 103 views of this thread so far I think it is safe to assume the interest is there but nobody knows the answer. I know that I don't know the answer other than to say give it a try and report your finding so that people reading will know whether it worked or not. I don't recall seeing previous threads where people have successfully operated a pressure cleaner that is designed to operate on a booster pump without the booster pump. I think there are some pressure cleaners that are designed to operate at lower pressure that might work better.

I'm with Jim, I switched from a Pentair Legend II pressure cleaner to a Doheny's Discovery (Maytronics S200) robot last year and I'm never going back. It is light years better. Like points vs electronic ignition, if you're a car person. Nobody is trying to install a points distributor in their car. Yeah, I'm old and I know that cars don't even use distributors anymore at all.

 

[CountryBumkin]

I can't speak directly to your question, but I wanted to do something similar - that is to power a pressure side cleaner powered directly from a pool pump without using a booster pump.
I spoke with Pentair and Polaris about this and was told that it probably wouldn't work (but they would happily sell me a cleaner to find out for myself). The problem is, these pressure side cleaners are designed for high pressure (50 psi) and low volume, and the pool pumps are built for low pressure-high volume. Looking at the pump curve (Pentair WhisperFlow 1.5HP) it looked like it could provide 50 psi at flow of around 10-15 gal/min but the pump would be running full out. In the end I decided to play it safe and went wit the Polaris 360 cleaner.

 

[vulcan13]

Thanks folks for the support and thought. Apologies for the radio silence. The storm's out here gave me more pressing leaks to address :-(.
With them (leaks) being addressed over the next couple of weekends, I hope to have my experimental feedback for all in about 2-3 weeks.

I took the risk of going direct after pump, to see if the concept works. With the 280 creeping slowly along the pool floor, I think it should work (desired pressure and flow), if I can get pump to prime.
I am going to try the 3 way valve and jandy energy filter kit. That should let me measure the pressure as well as allow the pump to prime when the pump output is 100% fed to the filter.
The kit is on order and will try out once possible.

i was hoping some one had tried my plan and could either :goodjob or :hammer me.

 

[vulcan13]

Thanks folks for the support and thought. Apologies for the radio silence. The storm's out here gave me more pressing leaks to address :-(.
With them (leaks) being addressed over the next couple of weekends, I hope to have my experimental feedback for all in about 2-3 weeks.

I took the risk of going direct after pump, to see if the concept works. With the 280 creeping slowly along the pool floor, I think it should work (desired pressure and flow), if I can get pump to prime.
I am going to try the 3 way valve and jandy energy filter kit. That should let me measure the pressure as well.
The kit is on order and will try out once possible.

 

[harmonr1]

I've been following this thread since I just purchased a new Ecostar VSP. Bypassing the booster pump didn't work, at least for me. Here's my experiment. My booster pump is tee'd off the 2" return line. The return is controlled by a 3-way Jandy value, one side to a waterfall and the other to the wall returns. The booster pump has a 1" line from the equipment pad to the pool wall.

First I rerouted the flex hose on the booster pump to bypass the pump completely. Next, I took the 3-way valve apart and moved the inlet so I could dead-head the return, thus forcing all the flow into the 1" booster pump line. With the pump running at low speed, I slowly dead-headed the return so all flow would go into the cleaner return line (remember, the pump is out of the circuit). I monitored the filter pressure and it stayed below normal.

At 1,750 rpm, my setup delivers about 40 gpm with no cleaner, solar or water features on. I should note that my pad is 110' from the pool, so my head is much higher than most. I have a Flowvis flow meter installed (highly recommend for all VSP's), so I can measure pressure flow pretty accurately. At 1,750 rpm, pump pressure was fine, but the cleaner wouldn't move. I did verify that there was no flow out the returns, except for the cleaner. I slowly ramped up the rpm and at about 2,200 rpm, the cleaner started turning, but slowly. I continued up to 2,800 rpm and at this speed, I would normally be getting over 70 gpm on the return. The cleaner (Polaris 380) turned about 6 rpm and never left the drain. The VSP should be using about 1,210 watts at this rpm but was using less than 600 watts. I stopped at this point because I could see my attempt was futile; any rpm over 3,000 would probably negate any energy savings anyway. Based on the VSP rpm, I can surmise that the pump is limited is how much it can push through the 1" cleaner line; it can't generate high pressure just by increasing the flow. I put everything back the way it was originally and all works fine. I guess I'll be keeping my booster pump.

I'd like to hear other's experiences.

 

[vulcan13]

Hi folks.
Here is my experience.
The Jandy energy filter. The knurled nut on top peeled off while tightening the gauge.Need to get support on tap for a replacement hopefully on no cost.

Skipped that from the plan.
Put 3 way between diverting to filer or diverting direct to the return line to the 280.
At about 3200 RPM on the pentair VST2, i get just about 27.5 (27-28) RPM's.
Picks up leaves perfectly. But only climbs some wall's. This was an issue before bypassing the booster, so not sure how much was the delta.
The noticeable issues were:
backup valve was not having enough pressure when turned on.
it seemed to not climb the first step which it used to do previously.
Sweep was very slow in the deep end. Seemed to sweep gently in shallow.

Any thoughts/recommendations? It seems we are just there and need to get over some minor hump..(hopefully)


I guess harmonr1's has got a very high head with the pump 110" for the huge difference in our experiences. My pumps are about 8-10 feet from the pool edge