Replacing Failed Single Speed Pump

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T

teamhurtado

0
May 28, 2012
100
Evening all! Yes, another "what pump should I buy" question! My 1HP single speed pump died. Initial reaction was to replace with something similar, however, I did some reading on the dual/variable speed pumps which has me intrigued.

Location: FL
11,000 Gallon Pool
2 inlet jets / 1 skimmer / 1 vacuum port used by MX8 suction vacuum
C1200 cartridge filter

Took a look at the pipes going into the current motor housing unit. It appears the pipes are 2 inches in diameter going into the motor/basket and 2 inches leaving the tablet chlorinator system (which is not in use per TFP protocol). I should be able to support a 3 HP variable system if I wanted to go that route. I will be replacing the MX8 soon though with a robotic system as I was never completely happy with it.

I'm also planning on installing a Liquidator sooner rather than later.

Given that we have a very simple in-ground setup, what would you all recommend? No rebates (thanks Duke Energy) but given our $0.12 kwh cost, with an 8 hour run time, I could save about $400 per year from operation. I could increase run time by 4 hours at a lower speed, increasing turnover and lowering costs by another $100 or so per month if I went with a VS system.

Any recommendations on my line of thinking? Thanks!
 
VS was the best investment I ever made so far as money savings (our hydro rates are off the charts here in Ontario) and the rest of the benefits are just a bonus. I was lucky and found a refurbished Hayward VS for $500 but it basically paid for itself in the first summer in energy savings alone.

Just do it. ;)
 
Are you planning a self install? Is the existing pump installed with unions (the screw type pipe mounts)? If yes to both, then what is your existing 1HP model #? For example, I replaced my 1HP single speed Pentair SuperFlo with a 1.5HP Pentair SuperFlo VS and it was a simple self-install requiring no replumbing. I unscrewed the existing pump and put the new one in its place. Had wire the electrical, which was easy too.

I love the SuperFlo VS. I like in the summer to run 24/7 - during day some for chlorine generation, and rest to circulate. At night it runs to provide water to fountains to cool down the pool. I looked at a 2-speed, which also would have been a drop-in replacement, but decided I wanted to be able to fully adjust the speed.

So definitely a good idea to go with at least a 2-speed, and if it fits your budget, go with a VS.
 
I'm thinking I can self install this. I've converted light switches to a zwave network and installed my own garbage disposal under the sink.

Current system is below. Current pump is a 1HP Marathon Electric. I recall replacing the impeller on it when we moved in about 8 years ago. It's time to change.

Saw the 1.5HP Pentair VS for $700 on Amazon. Would also let me stop using the old timer box in the system and just use the pump's build in timer instead.

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Not sure if I'm using the online calculators correctly, but if I theoretically purchased the 011018 VS 3HP and ran that at 1000 rpm for 8 hours to get a single pool turnover, that should save me upwards of $800 per year? Is the ROI on VS motors here in Florida that quick since we run these things 24/7? And that's assuming I can't run a VS at an even lower RPM given our simple setup.

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The only issue I see with a potentially simple change of your old pump is the fact all the hookups are hard pipe, so everything must match perfectly without needing to start cutting pipe. In addition, whoever plumbed it, it looks like they setup the plumbing so that the back end of the pump/motor appears completely flush to the house almost? Problem is you have no extra length to work with (if the new pump is even 1" longer) without having to cut and replumb what appears to be your feed/skimmer pipe from the pool where it comes up out of the concrete.

If you're comfortable cutting and rejigging the plumbing then this is less of an issue, but not everyone is comfortable cutting PVC and then gluing things back together. Of most concern I see with regards to that part,you don't have a lot of room left on the inlet pipe coming out of the concrete to cut there - it looks like it's already been cut once and there's now 2 unions in there so you'll have to make absolutely sure you have enough pipe left to glue to. For simplicity in the future put a removable union on there instead of all hard pipe - if you ever need to change the plumbing again it won't mean breaking concrete to replumb another cut.

As for electrical, I see your existing pump is a 110 or 220 model. Is it currently wired for 220, or do you only have 110 to the pump? That's an important consideration as almost all VS pumps are 220 only short of one Pentair model I think I saw that was dual voltage.
 
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I've worked on some sprinkler repairs and our disposal under the sink which needed some PVC cutting. It wasn't terrible just time consuming. Some primer and pool glue and I should be good to go, right? Hah!

Ill verify but I'm almost positive its 220 coming into the motor.

You are correct in that the motor is flush against the house. They had to chip away a bit to get it to fit.

If I don't have to break concrete I'm alright with doing some replumbing. I have a neighbor who's a GC if things go south quick.

What would be best to replumb the inlet? I'm guessing ill need to 45 or 90 degree elbow out toward the open area, reattach the 3 way valve, then go straight into the pump? I can always extend the return pipe floating above the pump into a new location. Then unions incoming to the pump and done?



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From what I can see of the return it looks like you're going to need to cut it at the concrete (leave as much pipe as you can) just below the first union - that'll give you enough length to glue new fittings to. The 3 way valve might be garbage as they glued the fittings so close to the valve that there's no way to cut any of them to re-plumb it for re-use. Thankfully someone thought to put a union in on the return side I see so that makes replumbing that side a lot easier.

On the currently shut off side of the 3 way valve where does that pipe go? It looks like it goes back into the concrete at 2 locations, and there's another valve on one of them? Is there enough pipe showing on any of those fittings to allow clean cuts and new unions?

And yes chances are the pump is 220 but if you shut off the cover and pop the end cap on the motor itself there's a jumper there that will indicate if it's setup for 110 or 220.

If it were me I'd just gut the plumbing completely and start over - orient the pump parallel to the wall (removes the issue of future size changes), toss the chlorinator in the garbage (since you now have an excuse to remove it), and then replumb everything using UNIONS at any point that may ever need to come apart or be replumbed in the future. Make sure to leave space between unions and hard pipe as well to again, if the need ever arise, replace the union itself while still having enough pipe to glue on it's replacement.
 
The three pipes in the concrete near the pump basket go to the main drain, skimmer, and vacuum port. If I remember (I need to relabel), it was main drain, skimmer and vacuum from left to right on the photo but I didn't label them properly when I first bought the house many years ago. Learned quite a bit in just a few years from home ownership.

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Well..IF the new pump fits and lines up with the inlet...you could just leave all of that alone. I see that there's thankfully a coupler on the inlet.

However, if it won't fit (the new pump is too long or too high/low) then you'll have to start cutting and replumbing. The outlet side you'll have to replumb for sure, again, unless everything magically lines up...which unless the new pump you buy is also a Jacuzzi brand that happens to match, is unlikely.
 
If someone can confirm this is wired 220V I'd appreciate it.

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Pump motor condition. Definitely time to replace.

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And new pump. I was THAT close...

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I don't think there's a way to extend without cutting off the union connector though. I'm thinking cutting the pipe as far away from the T on the right side near the discharge and then run a length of PVC. I'd need to maybe replace half the union if I can find the same kind?

So close to a quick swap. Doh!

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In response to your voltage question:. The wire color makes me say 110. Usually the hots would both be black for 220. Also, the little plastic switch is pointing at LO. This should mean low voltage. Also, the capacitor is labeled for 110. That last one doesn't always mean anything but it sure adds to the evidence.
 
Edit: Pabeader and I were replying at the same time it seems, but we are on the same page.

I'm no electrician, but that appears to be 110 at the pump, not 220. Telltales for me are the fact that one wire is white (indicating a neutral) instead of both wires being black - 110V has a single hot and a neutral (typically white & black as you have), whereas 220V has two hots and no neutral (so typically 2 blacks) - both will of course carry the green ground wire. Second telltale to me is the fact that the start capacitor is listed as a 110V unit as well.

As for replumbing, honestly there's not much pipe to work with on the pad side so if it were me I'd simply toss out the return side FROM the pump (the piece that's loose right now) and rebuild that part instead of cutting anything at all on the pad side. You can get all the fittings, joiners and a new coupler (although you'll only need half of it) as well as the primer and PVC glue from a good pool installer.
 
Yeah it was hooked to a timer. The romex comes from the timer to the pump. The outside of the pump has a bare wire for ground. With the way this house was wired, I question everything.

Ill open up the timer box once I get back. Theoretically, the white could also be a hot but I need to check inside the breaker box first. Something tells me its 110 due to the size of the pool timer fuse (single slot as opposed to a double fise slot for our stove, etc)

If that's the case, ill have to return this pump and go with a superflo instead since those can operate with 110

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It certainly looks like 110V to me from those photos as well - single pole breaker for the pool pump is the confirmation for me, again, from a non-electrician but reasonably well versed standpoint. The wiring for the timer (neutral is ganged at the one terminal, single hot coming in to the timer and single hot going out to the pool pump) that I'm 90% confident it's 110.

If you don't have a spare 220v circuit at your main panel to work with its time to call an electrician...unless the model of VS you bought is 110v compatible. 95% of the VS pumps are not.
 
First, what is the model of your new pump? Is it a single speed, dual, or VS?

It's not just the motor, it's all the electronics that also rely on 220 if it's a VS.

If you can't find a VS option *specifically* built for 110v operation...you're going to need 220v at the pump. No choice.

You will be able to do away with the timer circuitry and all that however as you'll use the built in timer on the pump itself.
 

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