New Owner to an Older Pool - Questions about Cleaning & Plumbing!

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Dang, I'm really sorry to hear that.

So let's talk some shop. Do you have a full set of test results for us? Also, a picture of how the pool is looking just now would be awesome.

Do you know what the chlorine level was when you got back from being out of town - did you test before you added more CL?

When you say you've had a lot of tree seeds, has there also been a lot of pollen?
 
I will get a full slate of test results in the morning, along with a new batch of photos (I just snapped a night one to put up for comparison with older night ones I have as well).

When I did a full clean last Wednesday before I left the chlorine was at 8. I didn't want to chance it dropping too low while we were away so I poured in 120oz of bleach. When we got back on Monday I found it looking not (green lines on both sides of the deep end like I've seen before, etc), and chlorine was at 9. I honestly forget Tuesday but yesterday it was at 6 so I put in 2 cups of chlorine. Today it was at 7.5.

The seeds were real bad, we are talking completely covering a skimmer sock within 24 hours (I have a photo of that for tomorrow as well). But it's gotten better the past two weeks. As for pollen, I thought the worst of it was over in early April but I did wipe a lot off of the furniture on Monday. And there were brown spots on the deep end pool stairs, and on the concrete deck. It hadn't rained in several weeks, until last Sunday evening, the day before we came back, so I have to imagine whatever was sitting on the pool cage got washed into the pool.
 
My main curiosity right now is your CYA. If the CYA is at a level where 8 or 9 FC is in the good range, you really shouldn't have algae (that's not to say that you don't, it just changes the game a bit).

I think the deal here will be to get a picture of the water, a full set of test results, and then we'll see from there.
 
Here are photos, I included last month's pictures for easy comparison: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

As for the test results, they are:

FC - 8.5
CC - 0
pH - 7.5
TA - 90
CH - 325
CYA - 80

So I can see right there that I need to get TA up a bit.. and that CYA is bad. I looked at Pool Math and it said the only way to lower CYA is to replace pool water? And to get it to 40 that's 50% of the water at this point. We are under water restrictions due to a drought, so are there other creative ways to fix that?
 
CYA of 80 is manageable once you get your pool under control. I keep mine in the 70-80 range, which is what we recommend for those using an SWG.

The only problem with CYA that high is that it takes a lot more chlorine (ie. bleach) to complete a SLAM, as you have to bring your FC up to 32 and keep it there until the SLAM is over. But if draining is not an option, it's only $$$, right?

Once the algae has been eliminated, you can let the FC drop back to 12 ppm, and as long as you don't drop below that, you shouldn't have to deal with algae again and your daily chlorine loss and replacement needs should be about the same, if not less, as the higher CYA will give your FC better UV protection.
 
No, that's the "old" understanding of FC.

Our modern understanding is that chlorine's harshness is "controlled' by CYA. This means that the CYA binds to a certain percentage of the chlorine, which means a hard number of "10 is bad" doesn't work any more. Chlorine is safe in concentrations up to the SLAM level for your CYA measurement, which is 32ppm for your pool. You're safe to swim in it up to 32 at 80 CYA, though if I was swimming at higher levels, I might make sure I rinsed my swimsuit out with fresh water afterwards (this is actually something you are supposed to do anyways after swimming to prolong the life of your suit).

The high CYA also explains why you had an algae breakout. You were below the minimum safe level of chlorine, and not enough was available to keep the pool sanitized.
 
A pool is safe to swim in when the FC is up to SLAM level, pH is 7.0-7.8, and you can see clearly to the bottom.
 
Ah okay, that sounds good. I did not know that, so I appreciate the info!

I bought 10 bottles of bleach so I'm ready to party. Maybe/hopefully it won't take as long to clear up as last time since I think I caught it earlier.
 
I tried a new circulation scheme recently that left a tiny bit of algae on the top half of my spa (I've decided the reduced amount of water over the spillway coupled by the spa drain pulling most of the fresh, chlorinated water being added through the main return in the spa caused low chlorine in the top water layer in the spa). I was able to complete a SLAM in 3 days because I caught it early enough. Hopefully you'll have a fast SLAM too. Lots of brushing!
 

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One question I'm curious about since you're not certain how you got back to a green pool. Over the last two months, has the pool ever looked anything except absolutely, perfectly 100% crystal clear? I'm not talking about being able to see a few floaties in the pool lights at night, but rather, PERFECT clarity during the day? If it hasn't been that way, you've been on the verge of an algae outbreak this whole time and it just happened now as the water warmed up a few degrees.
 
Honestly? No, I did not notice anything beforehand, unless the change was so gradual I got used to it. I remember something got me concerned early in April (when I was brushing the steps I think), but I cleaned it up and nothing ever came back. I was sitting at the pool, both during the day and at night, the day before I cleaned it before we left and did not notice anything, it looked good.
 
We are looking better again! http://imgur.com/a/4NOfS Now to just keep it this way.

Chlorine is still over 30 so I need to wait for it to come down. I did the CYA test today, twice, and I got 50 though? Does that make any sense? The only thing that changed is it rained a bit yesterday, but not a lot. Weird. I'll try it again in a few days.
 
The CYA test is very sensitive to lighting. It needs to be done outside in the full sun, back to the sun, vial at waist level. Also, it always needs to be rounded up to the next highest 10th, so a result that is any amount over 50 means that your CYA is 60. I like to pour it to one line, check, pour to the next line, check, etc.

You can pour the contents back and forth between the vial and bottle just to make sure.

I never let my FC get to the minimum because I get a lot of tree debris and I have a 95 lab/otter mix who swims many times a day and drops dirty toys in the pool, so I use the FC/CYA "Target" value as my minimum for the day.

For a while, make sure you check your FC before you add bleach and 30 minutes after you add bleach so you can verify that you are at or above your target FC.

Keeping a log helps, too.

Check all the nooks and crannies for hidden algae, skimmer throats, take the ladder off and inspect, etc. any hidden algae will cause it to come raging back if FC ever dips low.
 
Ah that makes sense, I think i did the test on a cloudy day (and it has been mostly cloudy this week). I did run numbers again yesterday and got:

FC - 18
CC - .5
pH - 7.5
TA - 110
CH - 275
CYA - 80

So CYA is back up. I will definitely keep the chlorine around 12 or a bit higher. As for cleaning everywhere..... I have been thinking that there is probably some algae on the bottom of the ladder for awhile. Unfortunately the ladder does not come out (whether it's because it's 30 years old, or deck shifting, or whatever, the screws are just shot). I actually bought a new ladder before I realized it, and then had to remove the old steps while in the pool and get the new ones to fit and tighten properly - a very frustrating day! (Yeah, they left me a ladder with two broken steps).
 
Hey all,

So summer has been going well so far with this pool, I hope it as for you guys as well! I wanted to post that, unfortunately, I still seem to be having algae issues. Twice since I posted last, in fact. It has not gotten to full on green pool, but when I brush the bottom of the pool each day I am definitely brushing up what looks like algae. The pool looks good - here is a photo from today - but yeah, I brushed up a lot of algae right before I took this photo. BUT, the bottom of the pool is never green or yellow, it looks normal, just with a green/yellow cloud coming up wherever I brush. Since I said it happened two times since May.. the first time I just SLAMed it again and it cleared up, for a month or so.

Needless to say I am stumped. I have been keeping my chlorine at 15+, and all other readings (except CYA) are mostly OK. TA and CH are on the low side so I will work on them. Water temperature is 86. I was going to say maybe since my CYA has gone from 80 to 90 that maybe my chlorine should be higher but based on the chart it doesn't seem like it.

FC - 17
CC - .5
pH - 7.5
TA - 100
CH - 225
CYA - 90

I was hoping that the draining I've had to do due to summer rains (I've drained at least a foot off in the past month) would have helped with the CYA # but I guess not. There's no way to fix this chemically? I guess at this point I really do need to replace upwards of 50% of the water in my pool. I am under water restrictions until 8/1 so I will have to wait until after that. Does anyone have some tips on the safest way to do that? Do I fill while draining, for instance? It's a vinyl pool.
 
Have you introduced any solid/powder forms of chlorine? That is only way for CYA to increase and the fact that your CYA hasn't come down after all of the draining for excess rain makes me think your CYA could have been and maybe still is over 100.

I suggest that you dilute the water sample with 50% tap water and 50% pool water. Multiply your results X2 to get your actual CYA. Make sure it is back to the full sun (no clouds), vial at waist level, pour to the first line, check, pour to the second line, check, etc.

Also, I strongly suggest that you perform an OCLT test which will tell us if you have any algae present in your pool. Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT)
 
So I think what you're saying is it was a bad idea for me to keep using chlorine tablets :) I am using liquid as well, but I left the tablets in there in case I forgot to put in liquid one day, since I am afraid of the level dropping too low and having algae. So that may have backfired I guess.

I just did what you mentioned about diluting the sample and I would go with 60 for that.

I will do the overnight test tonight.

I probably should look into a liquid chlorine dispenser.. and I am trying to make sure I don't have algae stuck somewhere in the pool. I am going to replace my filter basket this week because it's green when it should be white. If there is algae somewhere I have a feeling it's in the pipe behind the pool light - the pool light bracket is broken so it is not 100% flush. At some point I think I need to get in there and take out the entire structure and replace it which will be a lot of fun.
 
jglonek said:
So I think what you're saying is it was a bad idea for me to keep using chlorine tablets :) I am using liquid as well, but I left the tablets in there in case I forgot to put in liquid one day, since I am afraid of the level dropping too low and having algae. So that may have backfired I guess.

I just did what you mentioned about diluting the sample and I would go with 60 for that.

I will do the overnight test tonight.

I probably should look into a liquid chlorine dispenser.. and I am trying to make sure I don't have algae stuck somewhere in the pool. I am going to replace my filter basket this week because it's green when it should be white. If there is algae somewhere I have a feeling it's in the pipe behind the pool light - the pool light bracket is broken so it is not 100% flush. At some point I think I need to get in there and take out the entire structure and replace it which will be a lot of fun.
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The test you just did indicates that your CYA is 120 (diluted result=60 times 2 = 120). Solid forms for chlorine always introduces either CH or most commonly CYA. The chlorine gets used up and the CH or CYA stays behind.

SWG are a great way to chlorinate your pool without having to deal with the negative side effects of solid chlorine and the negatives of liquid chlorine (lugging jugs of bleach and having to dose frequently).

The life of a SWG is about the same cost as liquid chlorine but you are paying up front for the SWG. Generally we recommend that your SWG be at least 2 to 3 times the size of your pool.

Can you update your signature with the size of your pool?
 
Done. Not 100% sure but based on measurements and chemical testing I am pretty sure the pool is roughly 18,000 gallons. I have been doing math off of 20,000 and, for adding chlorine for instance, the results are always a bit higher than specified on PoolMath.

So short term it sounds like take the tabs out immediately, perform OCLT tonight, SLAM tomorrow if needed, and then try to keep the chlorine stable by just using bleach. And hope that it continues to rain so I can drain the pool (Maybe I can get a tropical storm to REALLY drain it!).

Medium term, look into draining the pool once water restrictions are lifted next month to replace more water.

Long-term, look into a liquid chlorine dispenser or SWG. I wouldn't mind putting out the expense for either of these. The current process is clearly not working and as much fun as it is to wipe out my grocery store's shelf of bleach every month I'd rather not.

I see you have a CiruPool RJ-60.. I'm not sure if/what the rules are on talking about specific products on this board? So I haven't really. I did look that up and it's not that expensive, and there are models for < 60,000 gallons. I assume it's best to have this professionally installed, though.
 

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