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Thread: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

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    Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Jim R I too have been maint pH and FC with Muriatic acid and liquid bleach. My CYA is 20. Pool Math suggests 40. Should I still work on getting up to 40 even during these cooler months?

    Am using sock in skimmer basket method.


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimrahbe View Post
    If you have yet to add salt, then I'd still add CYA and try to get up to 40. To be honest, this time a year having low CYA is not a major issue as not as much FC gets used up anyway.

    Measuring CYA when the water is cold will not give an accurate reading. For a good CYA test in the winter, you need to let the water warm up to room temp, before testing.

    Jim R.
    Thanks Jim. No, I've not yet added my SWCG. Am using 8.25% liquid bleach.

    Brought water sample indoors to acclimate to room temp. CYA registered even lower than 20. Would make sense since my water is frigid (50F).

    Are all tests as sensitive to water temp? I don't warm my daily pH and FC tests I do before leaving for work.

    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    miles,

    The only one that I know of that makes any real difference is the CYA test.

    I see "they" moved our posts to its own thread.. This should be a lesson to both of us to not hijack someone else's post... (They really need an Emoji showing someone bent over the principles desk... )

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Yes, CYA is the only test that is affected by water temp.
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    At what CYA point (ppm) do you typically notice that FC isn't depleted as quickly? For first time, I noticed my FC to be around 4.0-4.2 for the first time for about 48 hrs. Even though the water is cold (48-50F)? When I measured last weekend I was around CYA 15-20. Using sock in skimmer method and it's not exactly dissolving quickly with these frigid water temps


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Well, a couple things to consider. I also added some granular stabilizer about a week ago. My water temp was about 64 at the time. It actually dissolved quite quickly (about 4 hrs) with consistent squeezing and shaking of the tube sock. So perhaps some additional squeezing might help. Ideally in the peak summer months, we look for FC to drop between 2-4 ppm in 24 hours. Colder months it won't drop as fast. When it drops more than that, we look to either algae or lack of CYA. Since your stabilizer hasn't dissolved, that could be one reason why FC is disappearing so fast.

    Something else to note - whenever we exceed our recommended FC range based on the current CYA, FC will disappear fast because there's not an adequate amount of CYA for the FC to bond to. That's why many owners who just completed a SLAM see their FC drop rather quickly back to the normal range. Now the cooler water temps will slow this down a bit, but it can still happen. In your case, I would first ensure your stabilizer dissolves, then validate your CYA about a day later. Ensure your CYA reached the target you wanted. Once you validate your CYA, monitor your FC to ensure it remains constant within its range as noted on the Chlorine/CYA Chart. If FC still falls quickly or below the minimum recommended FC level, consider performing an overnight (OCLT) test to rule-out algae.
    Pat (a.k.a. Texas Splash) ~ My Pool: Viking Fiberglass; 17,888 Gal; Waterway Supreme 2-sp/2-hp pump; Hayward Ctg filter; TF-100 w/ Speed Stir
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    What is more accurate method of FC testing?

    Filling to 25 mL and multiply drops by X 0.2 or filling to 10 mL and multiply drops by 0.5?

    The first method (X 0.2) gives me 3.6 whereas the latter (X 0.5) yields 4.0.


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Generally, the 25ml sample will be more precise. But, give or take 0.5 ppm isn't all that important anyway. I always keep the FC on the higher end of the recommended level to be on the safe side. It is safe to swim with FC up to shock level for your CYA so an extra couple of ppm isn't even noticeable. FC/CYA Chart
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    Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Thanks. My levels are now reading as follow @ 50F water temp. Water is and has been crystal clear:

    pH 7.5
    FC 4.0
    CC 0.5
    CYA 15 (tough to tell, lower than 20)
    CH 350
    TA 110 (down from 120 somehow)
    CSI -0.11


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Looks good. When you add acid to lower the pH it will also lower the TA a little. So, over time the TA will drop until the pH and TA reach equilibrium where the the pH rises less or not at all. Most folks find that TA settles out between 60 and 80, for some it is 50. With TA at 110 it is going to push your pH up. More here on lowering TA, Pool School - Lower Total Alkalinity
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Understood. Should I just keep doing what I am and allow pH and TA to equalize over time? Since it's approx. 2 month old plaster?


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Sure, either way is fine. Slowly lower TA by adding acid as needed to lower PH or actively lower the TA all at once. They both get you to the same place. Some folks prefer to lower TA quickly so they can add less acid less often. And others would rather not go through the extra work to quickly lower the TA and prefer to lower it slowly over time.

    I actively lower TA in my hot tub and slowly lower TA in my pool. Sometimes my wife helps me lower TA more quickly in the pool because she likes to have the waterfall on which forces me to manage pH a little better so I'll lower it to 7.2 a few times instead of 7.6 when I know she wants the waterfall on all weekend.
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Just noticed we could have a plumbing leak between pool and equipment pad. Notified our PB.



    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    My gunite pool chemistry is now as follows. Water temp steadying around 60F):

    FC 4.0
    CC 0.5
    PH 7.8 (usually 7.5)
    CH 350
    CYA 20 (targeting 40, sock method)
    TA 80

    Rained a lot last yesterday (2.5 in), will need to drain water today.

    Am I at a point where I can finally add my new SWG?


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    miles,

    If your pool has had water for 30 days, then you should be good to go...

    Do you already have salt in the pool? If not, add salt and then wait for 24 hours with the pump running.

    I'm glad you are back posting...

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Thanks Jim! Yes, new plaster in Jan. Filled then. Have been using liquid chlorine consistently since then because of low water temps. Didn't want the SWG out in the cold; installed the Pentair dummy cell.

    I have about 18 bags of pool salt in the garage from the PB but never put any in the pool yet.

    Now that water is hovering around 60F+ was going to install the salt water chlorine generator for the season. Unless you'd still suggest I just wait?


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad pooldv's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Sounds like a good plan to me. Aim for the low end on the recommended salt range for the cell, or even a little under because there is already some salt in the pool. Brush it around and wait 24-48 hours and turn on the cell. If the low salt light is on add another bag and wait another 24 hours.
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Had IC60 hooked up today Timmy ET4 panel. Hate to ask a dumb question, but how do you power off the IC60 from either ScreenLogic Connect OR ScreenLogic mobile app? When I go out and look at the physical unit, it is green for water flow (good), but red (bad) for salt volume. I've not added any salt yet and wanted to power off the unit until I can follow Jim's guidance. Thanks.


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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    Mod Squad Jimrahbe's Avatar
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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Miles,

    You can't... In my case the SWCG's AC power comes from an separate circuit breaker, so I can just shut the breaker off.

    The best thing you can do via ScreenLogic is just turn the % to zero...

    Mechanically, if you really need to, you could just unplug the Pump/Filter relay from the PCB...

    Oh!, and if your SWCG still has power with the Pump/Filter relay off, then your system is wired wrong...

    Thanks for posting,

    Jim R.
    Finished in 2015 - 17K Gal, IG, 20' x 25' Almost Rectangular Pool, Pebble finish, three rockport water falls. Pentair Equipment: EasyTouch 4, IC40 SWG, 3 HP VS Pump, CCP520 Cartridge Filter.
    TF100 with SpeedStir and SampleSizer, ColorQ Pro 7, Dolphin Premier Robot Cleaner, added Screen Logic 2.

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    Re: Miles' Pool Care - PH and CYA

    Thanks Jim. So I've turned the SL salt generation to 0% as advised.

    Out at my EasyTouch 4 panel, I've noticed my Pentair ET, lights, SWG and heater each have their own unique breakers. However, when I kill the ET breaker or the Pump/Filter relay via the ET panel, the lights remain lit on the IntelliChlor unit.

    Is the wiring something I can correct on my own?


    17'x35' 22,500 gal. Gunite IGP 3.5-8.0 ft. IC60 SWG, 2 skimmers, 2 main drains, 4 returns. CCP520 cartridge filter, 3hp IntelliFlo 2 VST VSP, EasyTouch 4, ScreenLogic2, 2 IntelliBrite Color LEDs, Poolmiser autofill, UltraTemp 120R H/C 125K BTU heat pump, Diamond Brite Super Blue, No spa or water features.

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