Hayward Ecostar 3400SVP pump Drive Error

[mas985]

Either it is poor quality components used in the drive or the motor was simply under designed for the wet end. Keeping the RPM below 3000 RPM might help.

The Hayward TriStar and MaxFlo VS pumps don't seem to have these same issues but they are smaller wet ends too.

 

[tstex]

Either it is poor quality components used in the drive or the motor was simply under designed for the wet end. Keeping the RPM below 3000 RPM might help.

The Hayward TriStar and MaxFlo VS pumps don't seem to have these same issues but they are smaller wet ends too.

Mark,

There's multiple versions of the Tristar [1.85HP and 2.7HP] and there's one you can buy on the I-net and the others from dealers. The latter is supposed to have better seals and a 4 yr vs 3 yr warranty.

There seems to be a lot more of the 1.85 installs than 2.7. If you search 2.7HP Tristar install reviews, you get zero. Do you have any experience or feedback on the 2.7HP tristar installs or do you know where you can obtain any objective/true field experience feedback on them? I'm pretty sure there's nothing more than 18-24 months on them either way bc of the recent redesign. One TFP user stated the tristar had an altogether diff controller design and used either used different current [AC vs DC] technology. I think it is even in this thread.

Thanks, tstex

Here's the quote from rcy re current types:

"I also see (reading the Tristar Technical Guide and the Ecostar Technical Guide, that the Tristar has DC voltage too high and too low messages but the Ecostar has AC too high and too low messages. Does the fact that one is using DC and the other AC make any difference?"

 

[mas985]

The basic VFD/VPD technology is going to be the same for all VS pumps. What may differ is the components used and the power section design for the load. For the VS motor drive, the AC is directly converted to DC power via rectifiers then goes directly into the IGBTs which switch the DC power back into PWM 3-phase AC power. So the power delivered to the motor only touches the rectifiers, a high power capacitor, inductor and the IGBTs. Normally, if a VFD fails, I would first suspect the IGBTs because they are very sensitive to voltage spikes and are carrying a large amount of current (on higher speeds). However, it isn't entirely clear which component is failing. Some have shown pictures of failures but I cannot tell which part that is.

VFDs have been around for a very long time so the technology is well developed. However, they are very sensitive to the design and the harmonics generated in the high power waveforms. Any mismatch in the power cables can cause huge power spikes frying the IGBTs. Running at lower RPM and lower power may help this situation if there is a design issue.

The controller is not unlike other controllers. It will have it's own power supply, micro-controller and drivers but everything is fairly low power so not much should go wrong with this although it could be influenced by the high power switching in the motor drive if the shielding is not sufficient.

Note that because of the way VFDs are designed, one can monitor AC or DC or both voltages for spikes. The technology is the same, but the monitoring can be different.

 

[tstex]

Thanks Mark

 

[Allencain9]

Good afternoon,
First, let me say I am a Hayward guy through and through! My pump, heater, filter system, cleaner, salt cell, and filters are all Hayward. My pump just stopped working the other day. It has a "pump stalled" error on the screen. I purchased the entire system when I had the pool installed in Oct. 2013. In Oct. 2016, I had to have the pump motor driver replaced. Now I understand that it has already been replaced once, but technically now the driver is barely 2 years old. I tried contacting customer service, and the man I spoke with, after waiting on hold for over 20 minutes, was about the rudest man I have ever spoken with, and after being a police officer for 27 years plus a US Marine for 8 years, trust me I have dealt with rude people! He was not willing to listen to my issue at all and kept trying to rush me. He even kept saying "I know, I know", which was extremely frustrating. Needless to say, after reading all the negative social media complaints of the pump, I felt compelled to try this method.
Seeing as I am a loyal customer of Hayward products, I would like to see if there is any way you could help me with my issue

Thank you,
A loyal Hayward customer,
Al Cain

 

[tstex]

Good afternoon,
First, let me say I am a Hayward guy through and through! My pump, heater, filter system, cleaner, salt cell, and filters are all Hayward. My pump just stopped working the other day. It has a "pump stalled" error on the screen. I purchased the entire system when I had the pool installed in Oct. 2013. In Oct. 2016, I had to have the pump motor driver replaced. Now I understand that it has already been replaced once, but technically now the driver is barely 2 years old. I tried contacting customer service, and the man I spoke with, after waiting on hold for over 20 minutes, was about the rudest man I have ever spoken with, and after being a police officer for 27 years plus a US Marine for 8 years, trust me I have dealt with rude people! He was not willing to listen to my issue at all and kept trying to rush me. He even kept saying "I know, I know", which was extremely frustrating. Needless to say, after reading all the negative social media complaints of the pump, I felt compelled to try this method.
Seeing as I am a loyal customer of Hayward products, I would like to see if there is any way you could help me with my issue

Thank you,
A loyal Hayward customer,
Al Cain

Al, sorry for your pain...

if your ecostar was installed in 2013 and it took till 2016 to fail, consider yourself one of the luckiest Hayward ecostars users on the planet...they usually fail w in the first 24 months from what I have read and personally experienced.

Here are some initial questions:

1, What are your current variable speed rpm settings for each of their runtimes
2. When your pump primes for the first run, what is the rpm setting and for how long? Also, how many times a day does it have to prime?
3. Do you have surge protection? if so, where is the SPD?

Finally, what are all of your equipment components as noted at the bottom of my post in the signature area? Also, thank you for your service. One of my brothers just retired from the police force after 38 yrs...we know the drill

 

[jgarden]

Al, sorry for your pain...

if your ecostar was installed in 2013 and it took till 2016 to fail, consider yourself one of the luckiest Hayward ecostars users on the planet...they usually fail w in the first 24 months from what I have read and personally experienced.

Here are some initial questions:

1, What are your current variable speed rpm settings for each of their runtimes
2. When your pump primes for the first run, what is the rpm setting and for how long? Also, how many times a day does it have to prime?
3. Do you have surge protection? if so, where is the SPD?

Finally, what are all of your equipment components as noted at the bottom of my post in the signature area? Also, thank you for your service. One of my brothers just retired from the police force after 38 yrs...we know the drill

Are there optimum settings for the questions you are asking? Or are you just researching to find possible trends in what is causing the problems?

It's absurd for a 1k motor/pump to only last 3 years.

 

[tstex]

The controller has an overall bad design...and yes, 1K for a 3yr pump is NOT GOOD.

If you can answer the questions, it will help w telling you what to do, esp if you have automation or not, and surge protection or not.

The single speed energy hog pumps in the 70's and 80's lasted 20+ yrs but they made your electric meter sing bc they spun so fast...VS pumps are more energy efficient [if they are set to the proper RPM settings] but since they have more parts and electronics, there's more to fail.

Either way, if a car failed at 3yrs/36K mi, you'd be really po'ed right after warranty. To me, buying an extended warranty is like pre-paying the manufacturer to fix a product that was made poorly in the first place so when it needs to be fixed, the man is already covered...buying an extended warranty after 100K miles makes way more sense for buyer but manufacturer would never do it...wonder why?

The proposition at this time is to discern exactly what you have, how it was run and determine if it makes sense to fix it or go another route?

 

[tstex]

Good afternoon,
First, let me say I am a Hayward guy through and through! My pump, heater, filter system, cleaner, salt cell, and filters are all Hayward. My pump just stopped working the other day. It has a "pump stalled" error on the screen. I purchased the entire system when I had the pool installed in Oct. 2013. In Oct. 2016, I had to have the pump motor driver replaced. Now I understand that it has already been replaced once, but technically now the driver is barely 2 years old. I tried contacting customer service, and the man I spoke with, after waiting on hold for over 20 minutes, was about the rudest man I have ever spoken with, and after being a police officer for 27 years plus a US Marine for 8 years, trust me I have dealt with rude people! He was not willing to listen to my issue at all and kept trying to rush me. He even kept saying "I know, I know", which was extremely frustrating. Needless to say, after reading all the negative social media complaints of the pump, I felt compelled to try this method.
Seeing as I am a loyal customer of Hayward products, I would like to see if there is any way you could help me with my issue

Thank you,
A loyal Hayward customer,
Al Cain

Al, I always ask the name of the person I am talking w for any needed future purposes...this guy needs to be reported...I'd look up their corporate phone number and express your disdain for such poor customer interaction...if you get the same tone from corporate, time to move on....

 

[santupari]

Good day, the error you are having tells us the drive is most likely bad. You stated 4 years old. I will private message you with contact info. Hayward might be able to help.

I am facing same exact problem with my Hayward pool pump drive controller. Can you please help me on how to resolve this issue?

Thanks,
Santosh

 

[tstex]

how old is your pump?

 

[mdk2004]

I am facing same exact problem with my Hayward pool pump drive controller. Can you please help me on how to resolve this issue?

Thanks,
Santosh

I have, well had, two of these pumps, on two pools.

I contacted Hayward from multiple channels on my unit which is 4 yrs old. Each time they "offered" to sell me a TRISTAR pump at $720. It is disappointing that multiple people seem to have gotten out of warranty replacements for a known major manufacturing defect, but they have decided to re-brand their variable speed pumps as "TRISTAR" and move on.

One of my pools is currently being remodeled, and I had requested a pump in the quote. All three pool contractors recommended Pentair strongly without hesitation, even at the small discount Hayward offered.

The EcoStar pump is sitting at an unheard of majority 1 star reviews on amazon. You don't buy a top of the line pool pump thinking it will only last barely past the warranty. If they cared they could have at least offered the pump at cost, which would have been in the $3-400. I paid $870 for my EcoStar plus install. So the discount was about 18%.

Santosh, I hope you have better luck.

 

[LiveHereNow]

Does anyone know why these $1k motors are going bad so quickly?

tl;dr - bad design on the controller drive (the computer on top)

I bought a house with a pool... had a Hayward VS3400 or whatever Ecostar... owner said it was only a year or two old. Every once in a while it would trip a breaker. Annoying but livable and I was busy (work, new baby, etc). Problem continued so I tested everything electrical from the electrical panel to the pump. Nothing seemed out of whack. I got a manual online and looked at the diagnostic... seems "heatsink overheat" was the issue. I got the schematic and unbolted it (bolts are on bottom and very hard to see visually... also, flat-head in a 1/4" hex and a weak alloy... ugh. I painstakingly took the controller off and water ran out of the bolt holes. This is not water from the pump, it's environmental. I dried it out and re-ran the electrical connection just to be sure the pigtail wasn't part of the problem (time and money). It seemed to work better. It was probably the placebo effect bc next day the breaker was tripped. I started taking pictures of the diagnostic screen... the heatsink temp would go from -17C to 76C. This could be at any time... not like running it faster made it hotter or anything. *fast forward* It's just a bad design... it's not at all externally water tight (small lip, screws on top with rubber gaskets, cast moldings, mediocre rubber seals) and allows water to pool within... I talked to new pool builders and others who maintain pools and to the one they advised against it saying they're trouble... most voted for Pentair and another said Zodiac and Jandy. I was kind of surprised at how many unrelated people said, "oh man, it just gives an errror on the drive for no reason and/or trips a breaker out of the blue, right?" Absolutely nobody said anything good about it or that it's worth repairing and I was warned I'd be throwing money away.

Interestingly, the Hayward service guide that has a flowchart (its available on their website, I inserted a pic of the related part) says for heatsink overheating to check for "water damage on the controller board". It wouldn't be something for a tech to check if it wasn't a common problem. I looked into it and it looks like a replacement is just the same badly designed controller but new in box. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm leaning towards just buying a new Pentair pump (a thousand bucks!) but feel like I might be missing something to salvage the Hayward given it's a temp-sensor/water-intrusion issue and not a real mechanical failure.

Thoughts?

 

[tstex]

LiveHere,

This pump is not even worth the weight for making a good boat anchor in shallow fresh water. Therefore, your diagnosis is correct and I too would not invest 1 dime in this "pump".

Whether a pentair or other, anything is better than this expensive Hayward "pump". I've had 2-3 fail under warranty as well as controllers too. As stated, the design is just junk and as I've stated previously, it should have been recalled.

Finally, I do indeed appreciate your analysis and the fact you've shown the true problems w the specifics of the design. However, lipstick on a pig doesn't change the swines DNA and a new seal or diff alloy screws can't change this design or DNA either. Besides the hard dollar loss on this pump, the emotional toll of coming home to a green pool or thinking you may are truly exhorbitant soft dollar costs. And in my opinion, merit greater reason for junking it and moving W a more reliable and true pump.

Thanks for your input -

 

[LiveHereNow]

LiveHere,
[snip]
I've had 2-3 fail under warranty as well as controllers too.
[snip}
Thanks for your input -

Thanks for YOUR input. I jacked with it today again and have it running... but my lack of trust in it and to your point the time and toil plus money... ain't worth it. I called and ordered a Pentair Intelliflo.

 

[tstex]

You've made a wise choice. Most of the TFP well educated forum members go w the Pentair Intelliflo too. If Hayward doesn't ante up and do something for EcoStar users, they are really missing out on keeping a huge VSP user base. People don't like spending $1000 dollars and then see a pump fail both w in and right after the warranty period. I have never heard any Hayward user in this Forum ever buy an EcoStar after they've owned one previously. The greatest recipients of this ordeal are new first time pool owners that allow their PB to install this pump. PB's then wash their hands of this pump and toss you onto the Hayward "customer service" grill. Dealers get paid to keep replacing the controllers and other on this pump. I wish I would have known prior to my install to go only w a pentair PB only.

If you did a survey of EcoStar users, the people w the least problems are ones that:
- live in a colder climate (up North)...this means the pump is not run but 1/2 of the year and the summer temps don't exceed low 80's
- little rain for less moisture penetration (
- run the pump at RPM's less than 2500 and never at 3000+ for any extended period of time, even on priming, higher RPM's kills this pump much quicker.
- run the pump mainly at 1 speed and not switching from hi & lo RPM's. (Harmonics issue)
- have surge protection device at both pool box and main house e-panel.

W all the above, this eliminates the entire Southern US that has longer summers, higher temps and more rain...

To conclude, a Hayward EcoStar user = an inevitable pentair pump owner...

 

[mas985]

Every VS pump should have surge protection. There are plenty of threads with Intelliflo failures without one.

 

[tstex]

Hi Mark,

Yes, w the sensitivity of VSP electronics/harmonics and combined w mandatory GFCI breakers w very low mA thresholds [4-6mA], the more reliable the power certainly increases your chances of success. Therefore, SPD's enhance those odds.

While every manufacturer has their std-deviation of failures on the bell-curve, the threads here of failure rates btw Pentair VSP's and Haywards VSP's, w or w out SPD's, the ecostar by far commands the highest failure rate. This is irrefutable. Being a naïve initial pool buyer, I ended-up w an ecostar. However, I would be enthralled if I could state that the ecostar I own has been installed for 5 years and has only tripped a breaker twice and otherwise runs perfectly. But, that's completely the opposite My ecostar failures [breaker just tripped again last night] have not been any different w SPD's. It's just a bad controller design and although SPD prevent many spikes and surges, they cannot change a bad design. Hayward should have provided [non ecostar] replacement pumps for all ecostars owners that have be subjected to years of problems. I'm not convinced w little to no empirical data that the 2.7HP tristar is indeed a satisfactory replacement; the 1.85HP seems to have more installs, but the jury is still in session, but the 1.85HP seems to be a much better pump.

Thanks for your comments and continued support of TFP...tstex

 

[tomines]

Just got the dreaded ecostar 3400svp pump drive error and a $1300 quote to replace the drive or $1900 to replace the entire pump. I believe it was purchased within 4 years but not entirely sure. Opened a case with Hayward and provided my serial. Let's see what they say.

 

[tstex]

Just got the dreaded ecostar 3400svp pump drive error and a $1300 quote to replace the drive or $1900 to replace the entire pump. I believe it was purchased within 4 years but not entirely sure. Opened a case with Hayward and provided my serial. Let's see what they say.

Good luck & I hope you obtain relief.

I would never pay those figures you quoted; the person quoting those prices should be ostracized for such exorbitant pricing. That pump should sell for $8-900 max w a $150-200 install bc it's a plug n play. If Hayward does help you, do not use that person for the fix..