Experts needed - pool deck level and pitch

[JoyfulNoise]

Well, I'm no expert in decking but it looks like they did a pretty decent job on getting the elevations and slopes. My deck is pretty flat and I wish it had a bit more slope because I do get small puddles in two areas, but nothing terrible. The biggest issues that jump out to my eye are -

1. The downspout from the covered patio roof, and

2. The exit point of the channel drain in the deck.

I would definitely consider making sure those area are properly graded and filled to reduce soil erosion and move the water away. For the deck drain out to the open area on the side of the yard, I would consider some kind of decorative rock cover French drain to handle all of the water flow from the pool and patio deck. The drain orifice itself looks like it can handle a lot of water so you'll want to ensure that the surface runoff has a good exit point. Just leaving that drain open to grass in that area will result in soggy flooded soil and dead grass. A properly designed French drain can do wonders for moving water away.

As for the down spout on your ZLL, that's going to be a hard one. If you plan to landscape that area with shrubbery and stone, you'll definitely want a buried drainage pipe (4" or more) and either perforated to help water the soil in that area or solid to completely move the water away. If you thin that area between your lot and your neighbors is not going to have a lot of drainage, then I would use a perforate pipe to collect and move the water away. My pool sits very close to my lot line wall and there is no buried drainage there. When we get heavy rains, the soil that is between the pool and the wall area gets soaked with water and stays wet for days and days after all the rest of the yard has dried out. there's no decking on that side of the pool, just the coping, rocks, shrubs and wall, but I really wish we had dug in some drainage pipe in that area to keep the soil from staying so wet. I have irrigation over there and it is very easy for me to oversaturate the ground if I get rain storms and leave the irrigation running....one time I even thought I had a pool leak the ground was so soggy....thankfully it was just over irrigation.

Good luck and great pool build!

 

[grumpiebk]

Ran into the same thing on my patio. I could see the pitch more than I expected to.


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Did you also have a deck drain? And how is it now after the space is usable and it's been some time?


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[grumpiebk]

Well, I'm no expert in decking but it looks like they did a pretty decent job on getting the elevations and slopes. My deck is pretty flat and I wish it had a bit more slope because I do get small puddles in two areas, but nothing terrible. The biggest issues that jump out to my eye are -

1. The downspout from the covered patio roof, and

2. The exit point of the channel drain in the deck.

I would definitely consider making sure those area are properly graded and filled to reduce soil erosion and move the water away. For the deck drain out to the open area on the side of the yard, I would consider some kind of decorative rock cover French drain to handle all of the water flow from the pool and patio deck. The drain orifice itself looks like it can handle a lot of water so you'll want to ensure that the surface runoff has a good exit point. Just leaving that drain open to grass in that area will result in soggy flooded soil and dead grass. A properly designed French drain can do wonders for moving water away.

As for the down spout on your ZLL, that's going to be a hard one. If you plan to landscape that area with shrubbery and stone, you'll definitely want a buried drainage pipe (4" or more) and either perforated to help water the soil in that area or solid to completely move the water away. If you thin that area between your lot and your neighbors is not going to have a lot of drainage, then I would use a perforate pipe to collect and move the water away. My pool sits very close to my lot line wall and there is no buried drainage there. When we get heavy rains, the soil that is between the pool and the wall area gets soaked with water and stays wet for days and days after all the rest of the yard has dried out. there's no decking on that side of the pool, just the coping, rocks, shrubs and wall, but I really wish we had dug in some drainage pipe in that area to keep the soil from staying so wet. I have irrigation over there and it is very easy for me to oversaturate the ground if I get rain storms and leave the irrigation running....one time I even thought I had a pool leak the ground was so soggy....thankfully it was just over irrigation.

Good luck and great pool build!

Thanks. I will certainly ask landscaper about this. The downspout drainage is potentially a problem. We had large areca and queen palms in that area before that were removed and stump ground so there are likely a ton of roots at any depth deep enough to cover a flex drain. I may look into removing the downspout altogether and having the water just move to the downspout on the far open side of the patio which utilizes a bubbler drain to get beyond the 16' of decking.

Now that I think about your comments some more, the deck drain emptying there so close to the bubbler drain may be a big problem. I may need a drainage point further away if we add a French drain to avoid oversaturation.


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[jkg3000]

Did you also have a deck drain? And how is it now after the space is usable and it's been some time?


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Still in progress. I've had it for a couple weeks now and I'm used to it. See it less after the final grade yesterday.

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[jkg3000]

Still in progress. I've had it for a couple weeks now and I'm used to it. See it less after the final grade yesterday.

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I have a deck drain and ran 2 down spouts under deck out the other side. Ran it in plumbing trench.


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[grumpiebk]

Still in progress. I've had it for a couple weeks now and I'm used to it. See it less after the final grade yesterday.

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Thanks for sharing. What is that about 8-10 feet of decking on each side of the drain?

 

[jkg3000]

Thanks for sharing. What is that about 8-10 feet of decking on each side of the drain?

Yes. I think it's 10'.




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[jkg3000]

Yes. I think it's 10'.




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Also, deck crew pitched under pavilion towards the middle to prevent puddling. V shaped pitch. The pavilion is tall enough that the rain gets under it.


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[gwegan]

You see the pitch because you have reference points that didn't exist when it was just lawn. My narrow backyard lawn slopes towards my house (award winning design there huh!). But it's difficult to see because of the lack of reference points for your eye.

That said I think your work is very good. You slope away from the pool and the house. As Joyful points out you need to install some drain for the downspout and something to handle water intrusion from the neighbor. And the deck drain will create a giant puddle if you leave it as is.

 

[grumpiebk]

You see the pitch because you have reference points that didn't exist when it was just lawn.

THIS!!! Exactly right. With the enclosed side of our covered addition on the zero lot line side, you can see the pitch very noticeably (straight wall, pitched floor). We may just need to mount our TV and shelves on an angle to throw everyone off


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[grumpiebk]

I've been hoping to see where the water goes before we do all of our landscaping and sod. All of my rain dances paid off as we had our first heavy rain last night, tropical storm-like rains. While I wasn't awake watching the storm, I did get to see the aftermath this morning (or lack thereof). Of course we don't have landscape or sod yet, but it gave us some insight. As for my biggest drainage concern, the downspout and channel drain on our zero lot line, there was no dirt runoff at all. Not a spec on the patio. The soil level was washed away a bit under the spout but nothing abnormal for that type or rain. Since we are likely doing stones in that area, I think we should be in good shape.

Also it doesn't appear that any water made it past the deck drain and under the covered patio. All travertine was completely dry under the overhang. It still makes me wonder why such a pitch is necessary under the covered patio, but I digress.

All of our drainage swales worked as desired. Since we don't have new sod yet, it was easy to see the path the water took out to the front of the house.

While this thread started more as a aesthetic concern, I am happy we don't have any water problem areas on our decking.


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[kimkats]

I saw this thread has served it's purpose! SWEET!

Kim

 

[gwegan]

Glad everything is working. I would still encourage a french drain along the property line and something to transport water away from the house fro the roof drain. If it rains for a while and the soil gets very saturated then more water tends to meander rather than soak into the soil. Its better to give direction to that water than permit it to roam free.

The reason the deck under the patio roof is sloped is so when you are hosing it down the water doesn't run towards the house.

 

[grumpiebk]

I finally got around to measuring our slope under the patio. Over a 15 foot distance, the height difference of the patio is 3", which equates to 1/5" per foot fall or just less than 1/4" fall. Here is a pic where the reference/sight lines are most noticeable.

I still think 1/8", which is 40% less pitch, would have been acceptable given 1) it is a covered attached patio and 2) we have a deck drain at the bottom of the pitch (where the pitch away from the pool also meets). The only way I see that water would become a problem at 1/8" is if the rain is so heavy it gets past the deck drain and scales up the pitched deck towards the house. But even then it should then roll back down to the deck drain at 1/8" unless it finds an uneven spot to sit in.

If I had an open air pergola instead of a covered attached patio, 1/4" or 1/5" makes so much more sense to me as rain would be getting in closest to the house and would need to run off the full 15 feet.

Does my logic make sense? I know it seems I am making a big deal about something negligible, but the pitch is very noticeable to me. I can feel it when standing on it, and it is noticeable with our furniture (dining table and sectional). Maybe I am really good at reading putts and should take up a new hobby!

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[needsajet]

It might be interesting to check the slope from the pool to the drain along the same line (in line with that wall). It could be that the slope from the pool is at the minimum, but then you have to meet that same elevation coming down from the house side. If that's the case, and if the slope was still a bother, you'd have to lift the pavers, remove some sand, and start lower against the house, which might not be ideal either.

 

[grumpiebk]

It might be interesting to check the slope from the pool to the drain along the same line (in line with that wall). It could be that the slope from the pool is at the minimum, but then you have to meet that same elevation coming down from the house side. If that's the case, and if the slope was still a bother, you'd have to lift the pavers, remove some sand, and start lower against the house, which might not be ideal either.

Yea I was thinking about that. I didn't measure the slope from the pool yet, but Kim's marble test suggests that slope is not as steep. Our kids rubber ball I tested with moved easily down the covered patio to the deck drain but barely moved coming from the pool to the deck drain.

I suppose this is not the worst problem to have as resetting the pavers is possible if it continues to bother us (versus other more permanent issues). I just wanted to check everything out before our final payment to our PB. But it sounds like this pitch is reasonable and within code, so anything we do to address it will likely be on our dime.

Curious, why do you think resetting lower against the house wouldn't be ideal? I can think of a few reasons but am interested in your thoughts.


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[Foosman]

I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and have found that when something like this is bothering me now that it will bother me forever unless I fix it or figure out a way to come to grips with it. There will never be a better time to resolve your inner daemon on this then now. I would discuss this politely with the pool builder and say that although they have done great work that the slope is really bothering you. If re-doing it would improve the outcome then he can likely have the sub re-do this at no cost. Maybe he has to use a silver bullet he's earned from doing lots of business with the sub, has to promise the sub future business or perhaps has to throw a few dollars at it. What I would do:
1) Tell the PB they have done great work on the pool, etc, but the slope is really bothering you. Now stay quiet and let him talk. You want to convey "feelings" here, that you have this beautiful pool but all you can think about is this sloped patio and that has you feeling disappointed.
2). If he's not willing to do anything, he may explain why...like it will create other issues, cosmetic, etc. If he goes with...this is excellent work and you are a whack job...then I would offer to pay. You can always decide not to pay, but try something like telling him it's bothering you enough that you would pay to fix it and can he help re-do it. Worst case he will likely re-do it at his cost.

good luck!

 

[grumpiebk]

I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and have found that when something like this is bothering me now that it will bother me forever unless I fix it or figure out a way to come to grips with it. There will never be a better time to resolve your inner daemon on this then now. I would discuss this politely with the pool builder and say that although they have done great work that the slope is really bothering you. If re-doing it would improve the outcome then he can likely have the sub re-do this at no cost. Maybe he has to use a silver bullet he's earned from doing lots of business with the sub, has to promise the sub future business or perhaps has to throw a few dollars at it. What I would do:
1) Tell the PB they have done great work on the pool, etc, but the slope is really bothering you. Now stay quiet and let him talk. You want to convey "feelings" here, that you have this beautiful pool but all you can think about is this sloped patio and that has you feeling disappointed.
2). If he's not willing to do anything, he may explain why...like it will create other issues, cosmetic, etc. If he goes with...this is excellent work and you are a whack job...then I would offer to pay. You can always decide not to pay, but try something like telling him it's bothering you enough that you would pay to fix it and can he help re-do it. Worst case he will likely re-do it at his cost.

good luck!

I am right there with you on the perfectionism. I am sure everyone else here has witnessed that in my build thread and my PB knows it. But we all spend good money on these investments and we need to live with it, so it should meet reasonable expectations. Your suggestion is a great one. With the experience I've had with them, I can predict it will be the latter outcome. But it is certainly worth mentioning/asking. And if I pay hopefully it will be cheaper with the PB than with another company. I am going to measure the slope from the pool first before bringing it up, that way I am a little more informed. I'll keep everyone posted.


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[needsajet]

True dat. Helpful and smart stuff in previous posts! Good luck and hope you get a bargain if you do it.

Re deck height and house side... could be anything I couldn't see or think of which is heaps! But 3 possibilities that crossed my mind were step height out of the house - you might already love that. Another is any pipes or conduits snuck just under but not real deep. And whether the wall finish suits a lower height.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re deck height and house side... could be anything I couldn't see or think of which is heaps! But 3 possibilities that crossed my mind were step height out of the house - you might already love that. Another is any pipes or conduits snuck just under but not real deep. And whether the wall finish suits a lower height.

All good considerations. I didn't think about conduit, but it is run deep enough where an inch or two shouldnt make a difference. I also thought about step down and need to touch up the walls, but no concerns there.

Drainage is really the main concern I need to be sure of before asking for a change. I may block the deck drain during our next heavy rain (if we get one before the build is finished in the next week or two) just to see another scenario play out. At 1/8" pitch, I still think it's going to be really tough to get water to house. Water would need to climb 2" over a span of 15' (x40' wide), that's a LOT of water!

I also have a separate company coming to give us an estimate to widen our paver driveway, so I am going to get their opinion on the pitch and also an estimate the repitch and re-lay the travertine.


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