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Thread: Borates after conversion

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    pepsiholic's Avatar
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    Borates after conversion

    Since my conversion my pool has looked absolutely stunning, less the specks of dirt and pollen that keep settling, but I can live with that.

    I have been pouring over this site for weeks now to learn all I can about maintaining my water. My recent study has been about borates. The benifits sure look promising.

    I killed a backswimmer after it bit my daughter twice the other day. I have read where they like unsanitized water, but I know that isn't the case, because I test daily and keep my chlorine in the fairly high range for my cya level. I think it just might have been a stray, along with the stray cat I've been feeding...lol

    I went online and found something called Proteams Supreme Plus and ordered it. I've read where you can get by cheaper by adding borax and MA, but for me the convenience of just adding this powder to the water and not having to worry so much about my PH and TA levels was the deal sealer..lol..I'm really new at this and until I completely get the hang of it, I will pay a little extra for getting it right...lol

    It's still a LOT cheaper than I was spending on Baquacil products that didn't even keep my water clear. So, please tell me if I did the right thing, I just want to have a clean clear pool for the rest of the summer.
    24 x 52 Round AG Outback Empire Pool 13,500 gal.
    1 HP Hayward Power-Flo pump w/Hayward 18" 150lb. sand filter
    TF-100 test kit & SpeedStir
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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    that is one of the commercial borate products. you can find more info if you want it by using the google search in the very bottom left of every page.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the stuff.

    Google seems to show this to be one of those water quality enhancement products claiming to help keep PH steady.

    IMO - if you just get the basics levels stabilized - PH, Alkalinity and Sanitizer - then you will have to do little to maintain the levels.

    Once we get our PH and Alkalinity perfectly stable at the beginning of the summer season levels stay pretty much perfect unless we have a big weather event (flooding rain) which can affect PH sometimes - our experience is if you do your simple water testing every day or two and tweak when necessary you will have clear and clean water with very little trouble, time or expense.
    27ft. Round AGP - Sunk 2ft. in ground - Expanded Depth Liner - 6.5 ft. center depth 22.5K gallons - gunite floor under vinyl liner - center depth "main drain" - extra outlet from filter - Hayward C900 filter - Hayward in-line chlorinator - Hayward 1.5HP 220V "SuperPump" - 21 Yr AGP "veteran"

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Borates are totally optional. They are an extra expense, and are certainly not required. Still, they aren't a very large extra expense, at least if you shop around for inexpensive ways to add borates. And many many people here have had very good results. Not everyone loves them. There have been a couple of people who didn't see any difference. But most people are really glad they added borates.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by imjay
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the stuff.

    Google seems to show this to be one of those water quality enhancement products claiming to help keep PH steady.

    IMO - if you just get the basics levels stabilized - PH, Alkalinity and Sanitizer - then you will have to do little to maintain the levels.

    Once we get our PH and Alkalinity perfectly stable at the beginning of the summer season levels stay pretty much perfect unless we have a big weather event (flooding rain) which can affect PH sometimes - our experience is if you do your simple water testing every day or two and tweak when necessary you will have clear and clean water with very little trouble, time or expense.
    Realize that you have only experience with your one pool. You have no water features that produce aeration, you do not have a SWG, and you use trichlor, which is acidic. In your case borates would be of little value since your pH and TA are always dropping from the continues use of trichlor and you have very little outgassing of CO2 which causes pH to rise.
    However, your advice is really not applicable to most pool owners these days.
    Also, borates do more than stabilize pH. They are also a very effective algaestat and are useful in pools that have high CYA levels since they will keep algae at bay without the weekly addition of algaecide.
    On second thought, they might be useful in your pool after all! In fact, this is the main reason that Biogaurd pushed borates since they take the corperate stance that CYA levels up to 200 ppm are not a problem in residential pools (They are, btw.)

    BTW, this thread might be of interest to you
    so-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-why-and-how-t4921.html
    Read it, you might learn something!

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    reebok's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by imjay
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the stuff.

    Google seems to show this to be one of those water quality enhancement products claiming to help keep PH steady.

    IMO - if you just get the basics levels stabilized - PH, Alkalinity and Sanitizer - then you will have to do little to maintain the levels.

    Once we get our PH and Alkalinity perfectly stable at the beginning of the summer season levels stay pretty much perfect unless we have a big weather event (flooding rain) which can affect PH sometimes - our experience is if you do your simple water testing every day or two and tweak when necessary you will have clear and clean water with very little trouble, time or expense.
    this just shows you don't know what it is or what it does. googling doesn't make you an instant expert. besides following the pool care method on this site, borates is the best thing I've done for water quality (much softer feeling) alone, much less the algaestatic properties which I am very happy to have, the extra ph buffer system and reduced chlorine usage.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by imjay
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the stuff.

    Google seems to show this to be one of those water quality enhancement products claiming to help keep PH steady.

    IMO - if you just get the basics levels stabilized - PH, Alkalinity and Sanitizer - then you will have to do little to maintain the levels.

    Once we get our PH and Alkalinity perfectly stable at the beginning of the summer season levels stay pretty much perfect unless we have a big weather event (flooding rain) which can affect PH sometimes - our experience is if you do your simple water testing every day or two and tweak when necessary you will have clear and clean water with very little trouble, time or expense.
    imjay,

    Are you the same as "inmay" at poolspaforum.com? If so, then you need to disclose more complete information about your pool since it explains why your experience has worked for you and why it also may not be applicable to some others. This post goes into more details, but basically you are using a copper-based algaecide and have significant water dilution from rain overflow. The former prevents algae growth in spite of a high CYA level while the latter helps keep the CYA somewhat in check. You also have a vinyl pool which would be less prone to staining from the copper than a plaster pool (and use of Trichlor normally keeps the pH low anyway).

    Richard
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Pisces's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by imjay
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the stuff.

    Google seems to show this to be one of those water quality enhancement products claiming to help keep PH steady.

    IMO - if you just get the basics levels stabilized - PH, Alkalinity and Sanitizer - then you will have to do little to maintain the levels.

    Once we get our PH and Alkalinity perfectly stable at the beginning of the summer season levels stay pretty much perfect unless we have a big weather event (flooding rain) which can affect PH sometimes - our experience is if you do your simple water testing every day or two and tweak when necessary you will have clear and clean water with very little trouble, time or expense.
    Pepsiholic...I added Proteam Supreme Plus and really love the water feel and look , and the algaestatic properties. It was worth it to me not to have to adjust pH either, and I have a small pool, so it wasn't a huge expense. Honestly I would have done it even with a larger pool. Bugs don't like it, either. It's a win-win for me. Do you HAVE to have it? No. But I want my pool to have every advantage I can give it for comfort, cleanliness and ease of use. I would truly be horrified if I had to shock my pool regularly. So horrified I'd never get in the water.
    7,000 gal. IG gunite, SWG, PebbleSheen interior finish-Aqua Blue, 8' vanishing edge raised 16-jet overspill spa, 2 12" waterfalls, tan shelf with bubbler.
    Pentair equipment: Easy Touch 8, Intellichlor IC-40, Intelliflo VF 3050, 2.5 hp Whisperflo spa pump, 1 hp Whisperflo water feature pump, Quad 100 DE filter, Master Temp 400 heater, Legend Platinum Cleaner (3/4 hp pump). Autofill, TF-100 Test Kit w/salt and borate strips.

    Pisces Pool Build

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    pepsiholic's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Woo-hoo

    Just recieved my Proteam supreme plus and added 32 lbs per the pool calculator. Now we shall see. I have to admit the hardest part of the whole procedure was lugging it up to the pool and getting the darn lid off...lol.

    Once again, thank you everyone for all of your insight and opinions, they have been invaluable. I have developed "sparkly-pool-itis", and I LOVE it. My DH thinks I'm obsessed (maybe I am, but won't let him know that).

    It's just that last year, I wouldn't even get in, because I thought the water had a funny smell and it NEVER looked as clear as it does now, and now I can't wait until after work to jump in!

    Ive added a pic 3 weeks after conversion.
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    24 x 52 Round AG Outback Empire Pool 13,500 gal.
    1 HP Hayward Power-Flo pump w/Hayward 18" 150lb. sand filter
    TF-100 test kit & SpeedStir
    Wanda the Whale Vacuum

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    Pisces's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Cool!! The water looks great !! I'm like you...sparklyholic..lol. Love love getting in my water...I know it's the cleanest, softest in town. Dread getting in other peoples pools IYKWIM. Ick. Just don't know what's in there. Enjoy your beautiful water! Thanks for the pics...
    7,000 gal. IG gunite, SWG, PebbleSheen interior finish-Aqua Blue, 8' vanishing edge raised 16-jet overspill spa, 2 12" waterfalls, tan shelf with bubbler.
    Pentair equipment: Easy Touch 8, Intellichlor IC-40, Intelliflo VF 3050, 2.5 hp Whisperflo spa pump, 1 hp Whisperflo water feature pump, Quad 100 DE filter, Master Temp 400 heater, Legend Platinum Cleaner (3/4 hp pump). Autofill, TF-100 Test Kit w/salt and borate strips.

    Pisces Pool Build

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    pepsiholic's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Urggghhhh, we are under a tornado watch until 10 tonight! We're not supposed to get tornados in WV!...lol

    It better not mess up my nice beautiful water...just sayin'...lol

    By the way Pisces, I looked at your pool build, simply BEAUTIFUL!!!
    24 x 52 Round AG Outback Empire Pool 13,500 gal.
    1 HP Hayward Power-Flo pump w/Hayward 18" 150lb. sand filter
    TF-100 test kit & SpeedStir
    Wanda the Whale Vacuum

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    imjay...I borate and love it...my PH has been locked at 7.4-7.6 and the water feels very soft.

    Pepsiholic...you chose right, you notice the water really shimmer now, plus it also acts as somewhat of an algaecide...many here have reported borates saving their pools from turning green during vacations...ect
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Pisces's Avatar
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    Re: Borates after conversion

    Thank you so much, Pepsiholic. I need to take some pics in the next few weeks...we've landscaped some and now trying to keep it all watered and alive with this big heat index. Stay safe with the tornado watches! Those are scary. We had the pool overflow twice in April with storms, so I know what it's like to have to re-do your really nice and balanced pool chemistry. UGH!
    7,000 gal. IG gunite, SWG, PebbleSheen interior finish-Aqua Blue, 8' vanishing edge raised 16-jet overspill spa, 2 12" waterfalls, tan shelf with bubbler.
    Pentair equipment: Easy Touch 8, Intellichlor IC-40, Intelliflo VF 3050, 2.5 hp Whisperflo spa pump, 1 hp Whisperflo water feature pump, Quad 100 DE filter, Master Temp 400 heater, Legend Platinum Cleaner (3/4 hp pump). Autofill, TF-100 Test Kit w/salt and borate strips.

    Pisces Pool Build

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