Test kit in ... let the SLAMing begin!

[buballodingo]

I feel your frustration. That's a pain. I don't have that same issue with the FC test, so I don't have any suggestions. I use one scoop on the 10 ml test as well. Sometimes there's a few particles left and sometimes not. I do one drop at a time by holding the tube in my right hand and swirling while doing the drops with my left, then slow down as the pink of the sample fades. I allow about 1 second per drop so the drop fully forms. Not suggesting, just describing in case it helps.

You can definitely swim at 12 FC with 30 CYA, so if you want to swim including the kids, add 10 ppm CYA and continue the SLAM at 12 ppm FC. Or before doing that even, test it yourself by swimming underwater with your eyes open for a while. Your pH has to be within 7.2 to 7.8, but I think we got that in range before the SLAM.

If you think your CC is 1.0 ppm, then that criteria is not met to call the SLAM done. But it's your pool and your call, knowing the method and what's happening, and that you don't want to do it again. The fundamental of TFPC is knowing what we're doing and why, and you've got it!

You can use the SWC any time you want, except if you're doing an OCLT and the SWC runs during the night. A reasonable starting point is 5 hours at 40% (2.9 ppm FC) for the Electrochlor 30.

Hi needset
I recall Caco telling me cc at 1 in sydney meets criteria due to the chloramines already existing in our tap water?

Also how did you get the spec on the electrochlor 30...the manual doesn't say much...also my lcd is the 30 but the actual cell is the 25 i believe...does it make a difference

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[needsajet]

On your initial fill you would see CC in the fill water because chloramines are used as part of the water treatment system, and yes, on a big refill you might notice some CC in the pool water, but it would get eliminated in the pool. It might get caught by your cover though. Was the pool open for the OCLT?

BRB with manual

 

[buballodingo]

How does the water look? If it is clear with no signs of algae I say:

-turn on your SWG

-keep your FC just under the SLAM level (you might have to add some liquid chlorine to do so) for the rest of the week just to be on the safe side.

-JUMP in your pool and enjoy it! After all of this work you deserve it!

The apricot color-can you take a pic of it and share it? maybe have something white behind it to make it really show up.

Kim

Water looked spotless will need to check again now in the sunlight.

I should have taken a photo with the test. Will do so on my next test. I might take needsajet approach of turning swg on to see how it actually performs and potentially do anotger oclt tonight and turn it off for that.

Will test again in an hour...thanks for your support.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[buballodingo]

On your initial fill you would see CC in the fill water because chloramines are used as part of the water treatment system, and yes, on a big refill you might notice some CC in the pool water, but it would get eliminated in the pool. It might get caught by your cover though. Was the pool open for the OCLT?

BRB with manual

Pool was closed all night

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[needsajet]

http://www.bestpoolsupplies.com.au/media/waterco/chlorinator/waterco-electrochlor-lcd/waterco-electrochlor-LCD-manual.pdf

Output is on page 7.

The 25 is 25 grams per hour and the 30 is 30 grams per hour.

I thought your cell was the 30, but if it's the 25, then try 5 hours at 70% which would deliver 3.2 ppm FC per day

The calculation is "grams per hour" times "hours" times "%" divided by "volume in litres" times 1,000 = ppm FC

- - - Updated - - -

Yeh, if cover was closed, I have a feeling you're done the SLAM. Definitely interested to hear what Kim thinks as well.

 

[buballodingo]

http://www.bestpoolsupplies.com.au/...chlor-lcd/waterco-electrochlor-LCD-manual.pdf

Output is on page 7.

The 25 is 25 grams per hour and the 30 is 30 grams per hour.

I thought your cell was the 30, but if it's the 25, then try 5 hours at 70% which would deliver 3.2 ppm FC per day

The calculation is "grams per hour" times "hours" times "%" divided by "volume in litres" times 1,000 = ppm FC

- - - Updated - - -

Yeh, if cover was closed, I have a feeling you're done the SLAM. Definitely interested to hear what Kim thinks as well.

Thanks needsajet,
My LCD is 25 SC just checked again to make sure. The Cell is the 30SC. Either way I will use those paramaters and adjust accordingly.

Just to ensure my calcs are right as I am getting a different number to you based on my pool volume:

25 (g per hour) x 5 (hours) x 70/100 (%) /20724 (Litres) x 1000 = 4,22ppm

 

[needsajet]

Whoops sorry, I had a different pool volume in there. You've got it!!

 

[buballodingo]

Just tested again and the FC dropped to 10 - pretty hot outside already and the sun is just beaming on the pool (open).

I took a photos of the pool to show how clear the water is and some of the test results of the FC so you can see the colour after adding the titrating reagent. This is as clear as it has gotten in todays 4 tests. I will put the robot back in now. It will be interesting to see if it picks up less this time. I also put the SWG on 50% for the next 3 hours to test again and see what it produces.

 

[BrettClearChoiceLabs]

Hi there, you've done an epic job of cleaning your pool! Glad the kit is helping out, can I ask a cheeky favour is that pic of our viewing tube? If so is the label wearing off as much as it looks like it is? I know it's still readable but I'd like it to survive even this much pool testing!

As for the colour of the test itself there's a lot better experts than me here but my tests always have a little discolouration in them at the end and it's really the tipping point where the colours changed that I'm looking for. My end result colour is usually "greyish" but quite pale grey. It only goes clear when I'm testing new standards under good lighting. If your tests are getting clearer it could be you're getting less leftovers or you're getting better at testing? I'll leave the better analysis to the TFP gurus. Do you have a speedstir or something similar out of curiosity?

BTW your pool looks amazing in that last photo, and I'm not just saying that because it's already too hot to move here in Brissy today

 

[needsajet]

Thanks Brett!

I look for the pink to disappear, but also haven't seen any cloudiness or off-clear so I'm not much help. Thinking back to agricultural testing, it does make me wonder about any contamination. I'm a big believer in triple rinsing before and after testing, occasional washing followed by a thorough rinse, and being sure that reagents never get contaminated. For example not dipping the measuring spoon in samples, closing the lid on the powder bottle right away, caps back on bottles right away, etc.

I'm totally grasping at straws and I doubt you're doing any of those, buba, but just for some ideas.

That pool looks awesome!!! If it were mine, I think I'd run the cover up and down every day or even twice a day to keep that sucka bathed in glorious chlorine

 

[buballodingo]

Hi there, you've done an epic job of cleaning your pool! Glad the kit is helping out, can I ask a cheeky favour is that pic of our viewing tube? If so is the label wearing off as much as it looks like it is? I know it's still readable but I'd like it to survive even this much pool testing!

As for the colour of the test itself there's a lot better experts than me here but my tests always have a little discolouration in them at the end and it's really the tipping point where the colours changed that I'm looking for. My end result colour is usually "greyish" but quite pale grey. It only goes clear when I'm testing new standards under good lighting. If your tests are getting clearer it could be you're getting less leftovers or you're getting better at testing? I'll leave the better analysis to the TFP gurus. Do you have a speedstir or something similar out of curiosity?

BTW your pool looks amazing in that last photo, and I'm not just saying that because it's already too hot to move here in Brissy today

Thanks Brett, you have been a great help since ordering from you as usual.

When you say "leftovers" are you referring to leftovers from the previous test or using too much powder?

I have got it to go greyish on a couple of occasions but that is it. I do rinse a few times prior to and after testing. For FC measurement I am ok as I can tell when colours has stopped changing, but for measuring CC it is quite difficult comparing to the photos I have as they are very similar.

Yes that is the viewing tube, I order a new one in my latest order from you received 14/1. Having said that I notice the libe on the 2 tubes I have are slightly different so unsure if that has an impact on my test results. I have yet to use the new viewing tube as yet.
Unfortunately, I cant get my hands on a speedstir anywhere in Australia so mixing manually for now.

As per needsajet response to your post, I am basically doing everything he says verbatim.

 

[kimkats]

I see what you are seeing with the color. I have no idea what is going on with that. BUT what I do see or not see is any pink so lets call it good!

Enjoy your pool and all of your hard work. Keep up the testing once a day. I do mine in the evening (except CYA) so my FC has all night to do it's work without the sun taking any of it. BUT I do not have a SWG so you are several up on me on that.

Your pool looks AWESOME! Now go jump in it!



Kim

 

[buballodingo]

I see what you are seeing with the color. I have no idea what is going on with that. BUT what I do see or not see is any pink so lets call it good!

Enjoy your pool and all of your hard work. Keep up the testing once a day. I do mine in the evening (except CYA) so my FC has all night to do it's work without the sun taking any of it. BUT I do not have a SWG so you are several up on me on that.

Your pool looks AWESOME! Now go jump in it!



Kim

Thanks Kim,
Just pulled out the pool cleaner and hardly a thing on it. So I am a believr, the SLAM is finished. Thanks again for everyones help.

So whats the plan now, drop the FC and raise the CYA to around 70 and tinker with the rest. Ihave some PH buffer too to raise the pH if required.

I have the SWG running all day at 50% then will do a 2.5 hour session day and night at around 70% till I find the balance with what it produces for my pool.

Does that sound right or should I be doing anything else?

 

[buballodingo]

So I did the full range of tests to start my regular testing off. I did not do CYA as I knew this was low yesterday. I did not add chlorine during the day as I had the SWG on at 50% till the test. FC was at 5 so added some chlorine. I also added stabiliser to get to around 50 then will micro adjust to 60 tomorrow when I know the actual CYA measure. My current targets are shown.

TEST DATE	17/1/16	TEST TIME	4PM
Item	Test	Target	Comments
FC	5.0	7.0	Test went grey/clear with reduced powder
CC	1.0	0.5
TC	6.0	7.5
pH	7.6	7.5
TA	75.0	70
CH	125.0	250
CYA	25.0	60
S		4800	Did not test
CSI	-0.640	0.00
PT	31.9	26.0
SWG Level	50%	70%
SWG AM		NA	Running from 12PM til test.
SWG PM		NA	Running from 12PM til test.
Other Notes
Regular Test - First regular test after SLAM. Intent to start getting pool balancing correct I know from yesterday CYA under 30..assume 25 the ad until 70. Pool Temp -
Chemicals added - work done
Hydrochloric Acid
Stabiliser	Added 520mg to get to 50 the micro adjust to 60
Chlorine	Added 331mL chlorine to get to 7ppm
Calcium hardener
Salt
pH buffer
Back wash
Rinse
Deep clean of filter
Lights
Remco pit	I vacuumed with slurpy at 1:30PM
Other Notes	Pool Crystal clear

Do I need to adjust TA, CH or pH for now. pH and TA are close, CH is low but will rise with time.

Im working through a my testing program and maintence and post when I figure out how often I will be testing what.

I will also start my 3.5 hour morning (6am til 9:30AM) and night (6PM til 9:30PM) SWG at probably 70% and tweak as I test for chlorine. In this heat I lost 7 ppm in 6.5 hours.

 

[needsajet]

Very well thought out, mate. Very well.

Don't add TA. You can do CH if you like, but only to 200 and let it go up from there. Let your pH drift up to 7.7/7.8 cause that's where it's going to migrate anyway. Add acid when you see more than 7.8, but only to go back to 7.6, and let TA stabilize to where it wants to, for now. That can be revisited later.

If you could indicate how much swimming, that would be helpful with understanding your situation relative to the 7 ppm FC in 6.5 hours.

Great work, mate. If Kim, the kindy teach, has any of these left over now that school is back over there, you're sure to get a gold star.

 

[buballodingo]

Very well thought out, mate. Very well.

Don't add TA. You can do CH if you like, but only to 200 and let it go up from there. Let your pH drift up to 7.7/7.8 cause that's where it's going to migrate anyway. Add acid when you see more than 7.8, but only to go back to 7.6, and let TA stabilize to where it wants to, for now. That can be revisited later.

If you could indicate how much swimming, that would be helpful with understanding your situation relative to the 7 ppm FC in 6.5 hours.

Great work, mate. If Kim, the kindy teach, has any of these left over now that school is back over there, you're sure to get a gold star.

Haha..gold star - my wife is a primary school teacher too...I will steel a couple of them with some smiley stamps...

OK so optimal PH is 7.7 to 7.8 which will mean the TA will rise slightly too. I will put my optimal pH at 7.7 with max at 7.8 then.
Today I was in there by my lonesome for an hour vacuuming the pit again so I roughed some of the remaining sediment/algae (dead I hope).

It has been 39 to 40 degrees celcius all day though. I just put my SWG to the settings above 3.5 hours in morning and night at 70%. I also put the pump at eco so running low...I hope that is enough flow. I am looking through the manual shortly to see if I can figure it out.

Its school holidays now so I assume the kids will be in there daily when I start work again tomorrow -- haha figure that out...fix the pool then not be able to use it lol.

The higher PH really helps the CSI too which is a great benefit.

 

[needsajet]

We had four 9/10 yr olds today for about 4 hours and 2 adults for about an hour. Pool was heated to 29C (84F) by about noon then coasted up to 31C (88F) from the sun.

Hopefully mine is a helpful reference. FC was 6 ppm this morning and to compare, I tested and got 5 ppm at end of day. All my pump hours are while the sun is hitting the pool, 8 hrs at 80%, which adds 3.7 ppm, so consumption was around 5 ppm FC for the day. Hot today!

I did this because most people reading 7 ppm FC loss in a day would be suggesting an OCLT and SLAM. And it's best to be realistic about that. It's probably a good idea to elevate your chlorine with liquid before bed, leave the SWC running, but leave the dialing in of the SWC until a bit later.

I wouldn't quite say 'optimal' is 7.7/7.8; more like 'realistic' or 'no hassle'.

You can actively lower TA which will spread out (reduce the frequency of) acid additions, for example once a week instead of twice (or longer). I'm not a qualified expert in this, but some argue that the amount of acid you use will be much the same regardless of your TA strategy, because basically you need to offset incoming TA that arrives with fill water. If you read stuff by Chem Geek and JoyfulNoise, they are the gurus. But whatever the details, many of us just keep our water around 7.7/7.8 and it doesn't take much acid or effort.

I do three pools and test twice a week and it seems to be working fine. But at the beginning of using TFPC on a pool, it takes more testing. I add acid to each pool once a week. 500 ml in my own, 300 ml in one and 400 ml in the other. If there's a pool party (or school holidays) and lots of aeration, I sometimes need a bit of acid in between.

After you get comfortable with everything, read about borates. If you go down that path, it works best with TA a bit lower, e.g. 60 ppm, so that changes the answer as to optimal or best TA and pH level.

I hope I haven't confused things, but like to explain given that you have a very thorough understanding already.

 

[buballodingo]

Thanks needsajet...your thoughts are always appreciated and well timed. I just went in for a dip with the family...first one for a while...2 adults and 3 children. The FC drop is still concerning to me. I dont understand how this happens. Again the only explanation I have is that 1/3 of my pool is shallower than 650mm and I may be getting a lot of loss from this end of the pool and in particular at 39 to 40 degrees celcius as it was today.

I was going to do another chlorine test shortly after our swim to see how the SWG was going. I do agree, I was going to leave the SWG running all night at 70% especially because of our swim. I will measure ph and chlorine I think once every evening for the balance of this week then ease off from there when I get used to it.

Good tip about the acid. I really didn't think I need to to top acid that much. I need to really sit down and work out, what I test daily, every second day, every week and work through a schedule. I saw the pool school write up but I need to get it in my head so I can track it properly.

When you have a swim with the family and your SWG is on timer do you switch on during a swim and do you do anything immediately after?

EDIT: FC was ok I suppose it was 7.5ppm with CC at 0.5ppm. I added 360mL to get it up from 5 to 7 and the SWG has been running at 70%. Still unsure about the FC loss though. Tomorrow is a 34 degree day so I will leave the SWG on during the day and tesct FC when I come home if well above required FC I will reduce . Based on my pump spec running on the lowest pump level will turn a 25,000 L pool over once if I ran it for 7.6 hours. So that will turn over my pool once. So I am also thinking of setting the SGW at 100% tomorrow and turning pump on time for the 7.6 hours say 8 to be safe (split between day and night) and adjust the % down only until I meet the FC requirement of 7.

Does that sound ok? Is turning the pool over once sufficient you think?

 

[needsajet]

It depends! haha

If a big group is sprung on me and FC is 7.5% of CYA or less, I pour a litre (quart) of 12.5% FC in (around 3 ppm FC).
If I know ahead of time, I turn the SWC up to 100% the day before or in the morning.
For that hot evening a few days ago, I just turned the SWC to 'manual on' while we floated around in the evening.
Depending how good a swim it is, I might test after and if needed, top up with chlorinating liquid.
Mine has a "Boost" setting that will run the SWC at 100% for 24 hours, which can be useful as well. Yours has the SC button (super-chlorination). On mine it adds 10 ppm and yours would add about 25 ppm FC. It can be reduced by pressing Boost (SC) again before the 24 hours is finished.

I'm a bit all over the place!

 

[kimkats]

You have this down! I am loving watching you learn. Not sure about the drop in the FC but after a while of keeping a log you might find it is YOUR normal. Every pool is different so now it is time for you to learn what yours likes and does on any given day.

LOL on going back to work after all of this work so not fair!



Here is your Gold Star from this Kindergarten teacher!

Kim