New Build - Long Island, NY

[CharlyBaltimore]

Hey all! I guess I harassed my husband enough that he finally caved and signed the contract for a pool last week.

We're doing a 20' x 45' rectangular gunite pool with an 8' x 8' built-in spa, 3.5' - 8' water depth, Cover Pools autocover, Interfab Adrenaline slide, travertine coping/surround (our current patio is travertine, so we plan to tie it into the current patio.)

Here's my husband's layout:

Here's where the pool will go (my husband and I marked it out to try and get an idea of size and layout):

*10" wide walls (buttress walls for slab support for the patio.)
*PebbleSheen (haven't decided what kind exactly, but my favorite colors are Desert Gold, French Grey, Seafood Green and Irish Mist with Shimmering Sea and/or Luminous blend added to it...I like sparkly things. )
*4 LED color changing lights within the pool
*Pump: Jandy 2HP
*Filter: Jandy DEV60
*Natural Gas Heater: Jandy JXI400
*SWCG: Autopilot RC42
*PH & Chlorine Control: not sure of manufacturer
*Pool Cleaner: Aquaclean Robot
*Control Panel: Jandy Aqualink RS8
*Cover Pools AutoCover (concrete box with drain, in-wall tracks, stainless steel brackets for walk-on travertine lid)

*spa - pump, light, blower? (I need to get more details)
*extra pump for slide



The one thing we're not completely set on is the depth. Right now we have the water depth set for 8' at the deep end. We have 4 children (GBBG) ranging in ages from 10 to almost 3. My fear is that they'll want to start jumping or diving into the pool, but a 6' depth won't be deep enough? One PB we met with suggested that we go no higher than 6', especially if we're not putting in a diving board. He felt we'd get more use out of it from a recreational/game standpoint if we didn't go as deep. (This was also the trend he's been seeing.)
Personally, I'd like to start the shallow end with a 4' water depth as opposed to a 3.5" water depth (I'm 6'1" so I don't want to feel like I'm standing a bathtub. ) I believe it added quite a bit for us to do for the 4' water depth, so my husband told me to nix that idea.

Any insight? Suggestions?
Thanks in advance!

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I grew up on LI (Setauket, near Stony Brook University); your home is lovely.

Your layout looks great but here's a couple of personal opinion/comments in no specific order -

1. Be careful with grey and dark colored plaster. It often can be mottled (color variation) easily and it's easily screwed up by an inexperienced plasterer. Also, dark colors tend to fade over time so you will want to look at pools with similar choice of plaster color many years out to get a feel for what it will really look like.

2. Ditch the pH and chlorine automation systems. You can search on terms like "Automation" and "ORP" here on TFP and find out the scoop on them. They are, in most generous terms, a solution searching for a problem. Too often people are sold on them as "you never have to touch your pool chemicals again" and that is anything but the truth. No residential pool needs the level of automation offered by those systems and all residential pools are easily managed by the pool owner doing their own pool chemistry measurements and daily chemical adjustments. You will be told "why would you ever want to handle nasty pool chemicals, it's unsafe!" Well, hogwash, pool chemistry management is easy to do yourself and requires no special skills. We teach folks here at TFP to take it a DIY approach to managing your own pool and the results these methods achieve leave every other method in the dust. Save yourself the money and headaches and forget about pH/chlorine automation.

3. Definitely a +1 on the SWG!! Easiest way to chlorinate a swimming pool by far. You're going to love having a salt pool. And don't let them talk you out of it with scare tactics.

4. Given #3 above, you may want to rethink travertine coping. Travertine is a soft limestone and it is susceptible to salt damage. You live in an area with a good amount of rainfall so salt accumulation should be minimal. But, to protect that beautiful investment, if you must go with travertine as your coping, you're going to want the mason to seal it using something like DuPont StoneTech or DryTreat 40SK. I love travertine too, but there are some places you just don't use it and the coping is one of them. Plus, by not using travertine, you may be able to use a different stone material that gives your pool's outline more contrast from the surrounding deck.

5. The bigger filter you get, the better (same is true for the SWG, always upsize it!). Having a bigger DE filter means less backwashing and cleaning of the the filter. I personally have the largest possible Pentair DE filter and I no longer backwash it anymore. I simply tear it down twice per year and that's it. I can do that because it literally takes 6 months for the filter to load up enough to make the pressure rise. In the case of filters (and SWGs), bigger is better.

6. If the Jandy pump is not a variable speed pump, then you should seriously consider a VSP. With an SWG you have to run your pool pump longer than most non-salt pools since the SWG only produces chlorine when the pump is running. Given that you live under the tyranny of LIPA and the absurd electric rates you pay (I think you guys are still paying off the Shoreham Nuclear power station decommission), a variable speed pump can save you A LOT of money. You would use the VSP on low speeds most of the time to skim and filter water and create chlorine and only bump it up to higher speeds for the spa.

7. With the slide, I suggest you get a separate plumbing loop and pump for that. Depending on the flow rate requirements for the water slide, you may be able to use a simple waterfall pump for that purpose. I have a waterfall in my pool and I really like the fact that it is on it's own separate plumbing system and does not rob my pool pump of any power.

8. A properly designed spa does not need an air blower. But it depends on how many jets you have in the spa and what their flow requirements are. If you minimize the number of jets (typically 6 or less), then you can completely get away with using the pump to power the jets and no need for a noisy , electricity hog air blower.

Others will chime in for sure....good luck with your build.

 

[bmoreswim]

With no diving board and a pool that size, I love 4-8' depth. With a DB, I'd go 9'. Yeah, you won't be able to play volleyball. We don't miss that because we've never had it. We do have an awesome basketball hoop which is the main attraction - that and the diving board. Great pool and you will love the autocover! I also recommend putting double height benches in the deep end corners. 18" and 42" combo benches so you can sit or stand. Ours are 18" and 36" but the standing benches could be a little deeper. See our build thread in my signature for details.

Are you originally from Baltimore? I'm from the 'burbs.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

I grew up on LI (Setauket, near Stony Brook University); your home is lovely.

I grew up out that way. Most of my "sun damage" accumulated at West Meadow. Now I live on the other side of the stacks...Huntington/Centerport area.

1. Be careful with grey and dark colored plaster. It often can be mottled (color variation) easily and it's easily screwed up by an inexperienced plasterer. Also, dark colors tend to fade over time so you will want to look at pools with similar choice of plaster color many years out to get a feel for what it will really look like.

Is grey considered dark? I considered it on the lighter side compared to the "bluer" options. We're not near that point, but I'll discuss it with the PB.

2. Ditch the pH and chlorine automation systems. You can search on terms like "Automation" and "ORP" here on TFP and find out the scoop on them. They are, in most generous terms, a solution searching for a problem. Too often people are sold on them as "you never have to touch your pool chemicals again" and that is anything but the truth. No residential pool needs the level of automation offered by those systems and all residential pools are easily managed by the pool owner doing their own pool chemistry measurements and daily chemical adjustments. You will be told "why would you ever want to handle nasty pool chemicals, it's unsafe!" Well, hogwash, pool chemistry management is easy to do yourself and requires no special skills. We teach folks here at TFP to take it a DIY approach to managing your own pool and the results these methods achieve leave every other method in the dust. Save yourself the money and headaches and forget about pH/chlorine automation.

K! I'll look further into DIY vs the systems and discuss it with my husband! Thanks for the heads up.

3. Definitely a +1 on the SWG!! Easiest way to chlorinate a swimming pool by far. You're going to love having a salt pool. And don't let them talk you out of it with scare tactics.

Being that our "temporary" pool was salt, there's no way we're going back. Saltwater pools seem to be the thing these days. Non-issue with the PB.

4. Given #3 above, you may want to rethink travertine coping. Travertine is a soft limestone and it is susceptible to salt damage. You live in an area with a good amount of rainfall so salt accumulation should be minimal. But, to protect that beautiful investment, if you must go with travertine as your coping, you're going to want the mason to seal it using something like DuPont StoneTech or DryTreat 40SK. I love travertine too, but there are some places you just don't use it and the coping is one of them. Plus, by not using travertine, you may be able to use a different stone material that gives your pool's outline more contrast from the surrounding deck.

We had tumbled travertine surrounding our temp pool and there was no shortage of salt water spilling over. I didn't take note of any issues, granted it was only for a short period of time. And I see it used time and time again on here, as well as by other builders. I would imagine that by the time it's damaged, it will be time to re-do our pool, coping and decking/patio anyway. The travertine is something I'm willing to risk.

5. The bigger filter you get, the better (same is true for the SWG, always upsize it!). Having a bigger DE filter means less backwashing and cleaning of the the filter. I personally have the largest possible Pentair DE filter and I no longer backwash it anymore. I simply tear it down twice per year and that's it. I can do that because it literally takes 6 months for the filter to load up enough to make the pressure rise. In the case of filters (and SWGs), bigger is better.

Noted! And I told my husband so he could research that and check with the PB!

6. If the Jandy pump is not a variable speed pump, then you should seriously consider a VSP. With an SWG you have to run your pool pump longer than most non-salt pools since the SWG only produces chlorine when the pump is running. Given that you live under the tyranny of LIPA and the absurd electric rates you pay (I think you guys are still paying off the Shoreham Nuclear power station decommission), a variable speed pump can save you A LOT of money. You would use the VSP on low speeds most of the time to skim and filter water and create chlorine and only bump it up to higher speeds for the spa.

Mentioned this to my husband as well so he can review the equipment and speak with the PB.

7. With the slide, I suggest you get a separate plumbing loop and pump for that. Depending on the flow rate requirements for the water slide, you may be able to use a simple waterfall pump for that purpose. I have a waterfall in my pool and I really like the fact that it is on it's own separate plumbing system and does not rob my pool pump of any power.

PB suggested this already and we agreed.

8. A properly designed spa does not need an air blower. But it depends on how many jets you have in the spa and what their flow requirements are. If you minimize the number of jets (typically 6 or less), then you can completely get away with using the pump to power the jets and no need for a noisy , electricity hog air blower.

Another convo to have with the PB. I have no idea how many jets we're supposed to have, etc. so I've asked my husband to discuss this with the PB too.

Others will chime in for sure....good luck with your build.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and help! Definitely lots to research and think about!

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

With no diving board and a pool that size, I love 4-8' depth. With a DB, I'd go 9'.

So would you start the water line at 4'? My husband is concerned that a 4' water depth in the shallow end would be too deep for our younger kids and their friends. My attitude is that they won't be young and small forever. As much as I'd prefer to keep the deep end depth at 6', I know my kids will be jumping in with their buddies and I'm terrified that 6' just won't be deep enough.

Yeah, you won't be able to play volleyball. We don't miss that because we've never had it. We do have an awesome basketball hoop which is the main attraction - that and the diving board. Great pool and you will love the autocover! I also recommend putting double height benches in the deep end corners. 18" and 42" combo benches so you can sit or stand. Ours are 18" and 36" but the standing benches could be a little deeper. See our build thread in my signature for details.

Right now we just have small radius "benches" (if you can even call them that) mainly as exit points in the deep end. We were trying to keep protrusions to a minimum out of fear of people accidentally hitting one while jumping in, but having looked at your pool (it's beautiful buy the way!!!!), we're going to discuss what you did in your pool with our PB. Hope you don't mind, but I saved some of your pool images to show our PB as an example.

Are you originally from Baltimore? I'm from the 'burbs.

Nope...just a fan of the movie "The Long Kiss Goodnight."

Thanks for your insight & help!!!!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

I'd suggest going for the 4 ' to 8+' too. Little kids hang out on the steps and in the spa when they can't swim, but once they can swim they like to jump in, float around on tubes and noodles and the depth really isn't an issue anymore. Once they're teens they *will* enjoy the depth to allow for diving and racing against each other as well as lots and lots of cannon balls!

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

Some minor changes to the layout...mainly related to the patio, not the pool. We thought we might have to do some steps down from the current patio (in pink) to make accommodations for the slight grade change in the yard, but the PB said we could bring the pool up a couple of inches and we could have the entire patio at one level. Water drainage will be our big issue. Right now my husband plans on doing a large 24"x24" grate (found a company that does beautiful custom grates with designs so that women's heels don't get stuck in them!) and drain the water beneath to the side yard. This will be addressed with our landscaper to get his thoughts, but being that none of this will be done until Spring, we've got a bit of time.

I asked the PB about starting the water level at 4', but he said that it would be at 4' fairly quickly, before the spa's end. Right now our water depth is 8'. We're still torn on whether to go deeper.

Landscapers put a temporary road in for the big trucks:

Our yard was a bit sloped and soft, so the PB, landscaper and my husband felt it was best to do a temp road instead of risking the trucks getting stuck or having a giant mud pit for the whole winter.



I have no clue why, but my husband was supposed to clear/prep the area around the pool dig (FWIW, my husband has a tractor and offers, so it wasn't as if the PB asked him to do this). Hubby ran out of time (he travels a lot) so the landscapers had to do it.

Guess I better cover my chairs! (We had guests over this weekend) Our boulder fire pit was near the patio, but my husband dismantled it this morning.)

The plan is to eventually do a fairly large addition (3000+sqft - we already have the drawings), but my husband put the breaks on it because the "numbers" were spooking him a bit, so I told him he better do the pool in the meantime.

 

[bmoreswim]

I like that access road. That would stay in my yard! Extra parking, access to back yard, etc. But I'm guessing your addition will go that way?

 

[kimkats]

So close! I love your house and yard already! So pretty and well set up! I can't wait to see it when it is done.

You talk of your kids........here is an idea to help them know when it may be done. Make a calendar to write the "big" events as they happen BUT add 2 months to the end date for the delays and such to be on the safe side.

Let the kids be a part of the build. Have them go out and dig where the machine is going to dig so they can see how lucky they are to not have to do it by hand LOL

Kim

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

I like that access road. That would stay in my yard! Extra parking, access to back yard, etc. But I'm guessing your addition will go that way?

I'm sure it's crossed my husband's mind being that is where he enters the backyard with our large trailer that we keep next to the shed, but we have a pretty long 2 car driveway with a decent size pull in (enough for 8 cars)...for now anyway. You can see the driveway in this satellite shot:

Eventually the addition will go on the left side. Basically we'll be adding a 2+ car garage forward (where the car is parked right in front of the house in the photo) and a 2nd story above it, including the current left side of the home.

Another image of the buildup/road:

Our property doesn't normally have the boulders there. They were added to raise the grade up for the vehicles.

 

[bmoreswim]

Thanks for the other details. Lots going on there.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

So close! I love your house and yard already! So pretty and well set up! I can't wait to see it when it is done.

You talk of your kids........here is an idea to help them know when it may be done. Make a calendar to write the "big" events as they happen BUT add 2 months to the end date for the delays and such to be on the safe side.

Let the kids be a part of the build. Have them go out and dig where the machine is going to dig so they can see how lucky they are to not have to do it by hand LOL

Kim

Thank you for the compliments on the house & yard. The big joke in the neighborhood is how we end up digging our yard up every 2 years. Would you believe there's a beautiful gunite pool & spa buried near the rear of the yard? LOL The original owners apparently didn't keep enough water in it and it heaved.


They're supposed to start digging on Friday. I'll have to see if the kids can get an opportunity to do some digging. Otherwise my husband doesn't want them anywhere near the site. LOL He's afraid they'll screw up the forms and stuff. Normally he puts them to work around the house!




This is where we are today:

I guess those are guides for Friday's dig.

 

[kimkats]

A pool and spa BURIED in the back?????? How sad and ironic that is!

Yeah I would NOT let the kids near that right now LOL "Look mom! Tinker toys!"

Kim

 

[Nectarologist]

Very exciting, it's going to be great. Good to do it now. Next year you can open when you want and have plenty of time to patch grass etc. Seems like even an early spring start feels like they don't finish until summer time. I'm in Rockland County NY so I'm the same short swim season. The heater makes all the difference and you don't even need it come July and August.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

Very exciting, it's going to be great. Good to do it now. Next year you can open when you want and have plenty of time to patch grass etc. Seems like even an early spring start feels like they don't finish until summer time. I'm in Rockland County NY so I'm the same short swim season. The heater makes all the difference and you don't even need it come July and August.

I believe they're only doing the doing the concrete portion, not the plaster, etc. The plan is to finish and fill come spring. We also are waiting to do the surrounding patio until Spring because my husband wants to give the surrounding soil time to settle before we pour the slab.

 

[bmoreswim]

I really like your overall layout. It will be very nice. I was wondering if you gave any thought to having the slide on the other side, the back left corner. The reasons I thought of this are 1) they are big and will block visibility of your pool from your patio. Being able to see your whole pool from the patio is a nice safety benefit, and also is a much more aesthetically pleasing view, 2) the front side of the slide looks nicer than the back side (again aesthetics), 3) your deck space on the front side is quite valuable. You many think you have a lot of deck space, but trust me, it evaporates during a party quicker than water from a Phoenix pool in July. Tables and chairs take up a lot of space and you always need open space for kids being kids and adult groups standing around. You would need to add concrete on the far side to do it and plumbing lines will be longer but both of those would be peanuts in the long run. Just food for thought. I know you guys are very detailed oriented and have probably considered this.

Also, since you will have an autocover, will the corners of the spa that project into the pool be nice and rounded versus any kind of sharp or pointed? An autocover (and safety cover) will want to wear on those two points.

Is your intent to also get a safety winter cover? Many people (but not all) do have both in climates that require pools to be closed. To my point above, a safety cover will have tremendous pressure from the spa wall (corners especially) pushing into the cover when you get a heavy wet LI blizzard.

The last two items would be very important for me to consider before gunite.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

I really like your overall layout. It will be very nice. I was wondering if you gave any thought to having the slide on the other side, the back left corner. The reasons I thought of this are 1) they are big and will block visibility of your pool from your patio. Being able to see your whole pool from the patio is a nice safety benefit, and also is a much more aesthetically pleasing view, 2) the front side of the slide looks nicer than the back side (again aesthetics), 3) your deck space on the front side is quite valuable. You many think you have a lot of deck space, but trust me, it evaporates during a party quicker than water from a Phoenix pool in July. Tables and chairs take up a lot of space and you always need open space for kids being kids and adult groups standing around. You would need to add concrete on the far side to do it and plumbing lines will be longer but both of those would be peanuts in the long run. Just food for thought. I know you guys are very detailed oriented and have probably considered this.

We chose to put the slide there because we felt it would be too "obvious," or rather unsightly on the other side being that there's nothing to blend it in with. If we keep it where it is, there are arborvitae that will help camouflage the height/size, plus we plan on putting other plantings near it. We have no shortage of patio area with our current patio at over 1600 sq ft and we're increasing it another 1600sq ft or so. And although its hard to make out in the drawing/photos, the pool is pretty visible from most of the house, except for a bedroom that's on the far right (which will become a tv room after the addition).

Also, since you will have an autocover, will the corners of the spa that project into the pool be nice and rounded versus any kind of sharp or pointed? An autocover (and safety cover) will want to wear on those two points.

I believe the spa is supposed to sit just slightly above the water line. I mentioned your comments to my husband and he'll talk it over with the PB to make sure that won't be an issue.

Is your intent to also get a safety winter cover? Many people (but not all) do have both in climates that require pools to be closed. To my point above, a safety cover will have tremendous pressure from the spa wall (corners especially) pushing into the cover when you get a heavy wet LI blizzard.

The last two items would be very important for me to consider before gunite.

Heck yeah!!! The autocover is mainly for safety during the summer and obviously the fact that it helps maintain temp and keep it clean doesn't hurt. It definitely will not be our winter cover.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

HELP!!!! So now I'm torn over starting water depth. I'm 6'1", so what's shallow to me is deep to others. (my husband keeps reminding me of this. ) A 3'6" starting water depth seems so shallow to me, but will 4' be too deep for others? Especially if the "play" area of the pool goes to 4'6"? My husband is mostly concerned about our little ones. My argument is that they did just fine in our Intex pool which had a water depth of 4', but then I wonder if have it go to 4'6" gets too deep for play and that maybe it should remain at 3'6" to 4'.

(the red text is my revision, but I haven't sent it to the PB yet.)

I could use some thoughts and opinions on this. Especially since they start excavating tomorrow.

 

[bmoreswim]

4' starting depth if your kids have your genes!

4' is 4'. Fine in one is fine in another.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

4' starting depth if your kids have your genes!

None of my children are exceptionally tall, so I have a feeling they got their dad's height gene. (I've got "few" inches on my husband. )