Hayward EcoStar SP3400VSP versus SP3400VSPVR

[Julie Randle]

We are meeting with our pool builder to finalize designs and to talk 'equipment'. They quoted me a Hayward SP3220EE Tristar 2HP pump in my quote but said they could upgrade to the Ecostar for an additional $700.

I went out to amazon just to get a general price idea. It appears that the Tristar is around $800 then it jumps to $960 for the Ecostar VSP model and then $1,400 for the Ecostar VSPVR model.

My question is what is the difference between these two Ecostar models? I know they are both variable but not certain of the difference between each model.

I'm reading up on pumps and I am leaning towards a variable speed pump vs the Tristar single speed pump. We are building an inground 17,000 gallon pool with a spa, waterfall, two bubbler and two scuppers. The builder said they would put the water features on a separate pump (not certain about spa). They said they build with 2 1/2" suction (this is all new lingo to me so I feel as if I am learning a foreign language - plus I am a girl and just want it to look pretty! LOL) But, I am trying to be level headed and do the research on the equipment as well.

I generally, sort of understand the difference between variable and single speed pumps (energy efficiency). I'm definitely not certain about how much pump we should purchase for our pool needs. The whole turnover and flow rate, I am not really understanding.

Any guidance would be great so I can not be completely in the dark on Saturday when we meet to talk pool equipment. I have read that often pool builders will sell you more pump then you need. So in this case I want to be somewhat informed.

Thanks for any help!
Julie

 

[CJadamec]

You will save money if you purchase the pump for another source other than your pool builder as you wont be paying their mark up. Talk to them about that and they might work with you on the price, or be ok with you getting the pump yourself. With all those features you will need a bigger pump but any of those pumps should be plenty.

The difference between the ecostar VSP and the VSPVR is that the VSPVR has a built in vacuum release on the pump housing to prevent entrapment due to pump suction. I don't think that is a feature you would need. Otherwise the two pumps perform the same.

Not to add confusion but Hayward also makes a VSP version of the tristar pump.

 

[Av8]

Look up the reviews on the Hayward Ecostar VSP and VSPVR. I've had mine right at four years and it is now useless....just failed last weekend. These pumps have a control panel that internally fail quite frequently. I guess I am blessed it went 4 years. My last single speed pump lasted 15 yrs. At $1200 for the VSPs this is quite upsetting. I am looking to replace the Hayward with a PentAir. Hayward customer support was a joke. Their three year warranty covers little and if you are outside of t you can expect nothing. Search the 'net and you'll find many upset customers who have had their VSPs fail very prematurely. I'd also point out you can get these pimps on Amazon or other on-line retailers but read the fine print on the warranty. If you don't have a qualified professional install it you only get a 30 day warranty vs three years. So, no matter what you end up paying more....kinda depressing.

 

[CJadamec]

Unfortunately VSP pumps do have the electronic controller weakness you described. On countless threads that discuss VSP pumps There is mention of adding a Surge suppression device to the electrical panel feeding the pump to help prevent premature electronics failures. It's not just VSP pool pumps that need this protection most modern appliances and home electronics will benefit from the addition of a whole home surge protection device. VSP motors are becoming increasingly prevalent in washers, dryers, and refrigerators to help cut down on residential electricity usage.

 

[Julie Randle]

Thanks for all your input. So now I'm going to decide between a Hayward Tristar single speed and a variable a Jandy (I think there is a couple to choose - E pump and another). Any thoughts on these choices?

- - - Updated - - -

Or should I just opt for the Tristar single speed 2hp?

 

[mas985]

Thanks for all your input. So now I'm going to decide between a Hayward Tristar single speed and a variable a Jandy (I think there is a couple to choose - E pump and another). Any thoughts on these choices?

What about a two speed? Will give most of the energy savings of a VS at a much lower price point AND you don't have to worry about the electronics.

 

[Julie Randle]

Thanks Mark, the PB said he would do the Tristar single or two speed for same price. I haven't looked into a two speed yet.... I'll go investigate - any cons to two speed?

 

[CJadamec]

If you can get the 2 spd for the same price there are no cons at all. You are getting the same pump either way but the two speed pump when set to low will you about 60% less electricity than the single speed pump. Anytime you need more water flow than the low speed can provide you can simple flip the pump to high speed. A vsp will give you more flexibility but comes at a steep price increase. More often than not a 2spd pump economically comes out ahead of a VSP pump in the long run.

That aside I have a VSP which I bought with a brand new pool and have been very happy with it. In practice though my pool would have run just as well with a 2spd pump.

 

[mas985]

when set to low will you about 60% less electricity than the single speed pump.

More than that. A typical 2 speed pump motor will save well over 75% energy than high speed.

For example, if you are sizing the pump for the spa and it is a 2 HP two speed TriStar:

1 Speed EE on high: 2104 Watts
2 speed on high: 2184 Watts
2 speed on low: 433 Watts (saves 80% in energy)

These numbers are based on a typical 2" plumbing setup and from the Energy Star database.

 

[Av8]

Just some info as I replace my Hayward SP3400VSP. Most Pool places around here suggest (for a VSP anyway) the Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST (PI 2 VST) another Variable Speed Pump. My research has confirmed Intelliflo has similar pump failures like the SP3400 but not as many as far as my research shows. So, lets say you purchase a PI 2 VST. I have a Hayward Pro Logic PS-8 Pool Controller so you have to buy another "box" so the PI 2 VST can communicate with the Hayward Pro Logic PS-8 Pool Controller. I got a quote today of $1275.00 out the door not including install ($200). From my VSP experience I just can't get myself to pull the trigger on these with all the issues with the electronics. Changing out a VSP every 3-4 years basically kills any and all savings from the reduced power consumption and puts it into their hands.

So, my focus has been on a quality 2-Speed pump without the expensive electronics (KISS-keep it simple stupid). I found I think the pump. Its a Hayward SP3020X252 (Super II 2-1/2-Horsepower 2-Speed Pool Pump) or the Hayward SP32202EE TriStar 2 HP, 2-Speed Pump both of which according to my Hayward Pro Logic PS-8 Pool Controller will wire up nicely. I got a quote today at a local pool supply (Leslie's) for the Super II at $977.07 for just the pump. Add in tax and install and the total came to $1,345. Compare that to the VSP above and the delta is just a little less than $130 bones. Almost forces a guy to repurchase a VSP. Well, next I had to check Amazon. Yep, found the Super II there for $895 and the TriStar for $980. Looks like Hayward warranties these (Super II and TriStar) for 1yr (page 14). Link to Super II http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/SuperPump.pdf

Bottom line for me is I think I'm going to just go with the two speed pump this time around and install it myself. From my experience with the VSP I'm just not convinced any company has got the electronics to a point they will be reliable outside of 10 years. With these things failing so frequently any electrical savings is lost with a new replacement. All I want is a pool pump that will last 10-15 years like my last single speed pool pump.

 

[mas985]

I would go for the TriStar over the SuperII. The wet end is a bit more efficient. In fact it is the same wet end as the EcoStar so you won't need to do any replumb.

But an even easier swap is to just replace the motor you have right now with a two speed. You will probably save more than 50% in cost.

 

[Av8]

I would go for the TriStar over the SuperII. The wet end is a bit more efficient. In fact it is the same wet end as the EcoStar so you won't need to do any replumb.

But an even easier swap is to just replace the motor you have right now with a two speed. You will probably save more than 50% in cost.

Yea, I plan to go with the Hayward SP32202EE TriStar 2 HP, 2-Speed Pump. Good catch it will swap out easily without touching the wet plumbing end (baskets are the same). Its $980 on Amazon. I'll have to rewire the panel with the new motor wires but should be no big thang.

I plan to take apart the electronics in the EcoStaR 3400VSP and see if I can find a good electrical board tech or do it myself. I saw some YouTube Vids on a guy who fixed it himself - $20 part. Unreal.

Thanks for the great input and insight Mark!