Pool Repair - Tear in liner

[ronm]

I just bought a foreclosure and in the backyard I have an older 12x24 oval pool. It has a partial liner that has a tear in the deep end. I am in Alabama where winters are warmer than most, so there is probably is no chance of frost damage. Someone has winterized the motor/filter as everything has been drained and the caps placed inside the leaf collector before the motor. I called several pool companies and they stated they do not do partial liners so I am here for advise and now doing it myself. At the top of the pool wall is a ceramic tile boarder with a tile bullnose used for an edge, similar to a gunite pool. Behind the tile is your basic poured concrete. It might be possible to remove the ceramic tile without damaging the concrete and install new coping/bullnose stone, but thats a lot of work. About me I am a mason so the tile/cement work is no big issue, the question is just what do I have to do to tackle the liner issue.

First Question: Can I replace the partial liner with the same or do I need to go to a full liner with new coping (probably Alumimum from Cinderella) installed all around the pool?

Second Question: Where do I go for the materials? I am a contractor so I should be able to get a trade price and keep costs down, so specify both the bare minimumn solution and the the optimal one.

Third Question: Can you give me a lesson on liners? How thick do I need to go 20m on bottom is standard, but walls varry from 20m to 35, why? Type of material ie. Virgin Vinyl ? Do i change the liner lock, ie. yes? Do i use padding on the bottom such as Liner Guard Vinyl floor membrane? If i need a full liner do i use wall foam and what thickness 1/8, 1/4, etc.? And anyting else you may add is valueable info including your two cents!

I am draining the pool this weekend, removing the leaves, and once I get things cleaned up, I will post some pics. Hope to be swimming soon!

Thanks Everyone!

 

[budster]

A few pics would help me! I'm not sure what a "partial liner" is. Almost all liners are made from "virgin vinyl" anymore, unless it comes from out of the country, and even most of those are not from recycled vinyl.

Millage? Standard is 20/20, and you will get lots of opinions about heavier side/bottom "weights".

As for the rest, building is new pool is usually far less complicated than renovation of an existing pool. Please post as many pics, or other details that might help me (and us) to help you. In general, what is holding the liner in now? Is the tracking part of the existing coping? What is the pool made of (polymer, steel, wood walls)?

 

[waste]

Welcome to TFP!!

I'm sure I can help you with this 8) I've been doing liner pools exclusively for the past 9 years and understand your hybrid pool (I think ) Sounds like the previous owners had issues with their crete pool and converted to a liner but kept the tile (probably so as not to have to change out the skimmer(s) )

Pics will certainly help! I can tell you right now that you don't have to change to a full liner! All you'd need is precise measurements of the pool and the liner manufacturer can make just about anything - as we talk about this, I'll tell you how to take the " A - B" measurements they'll need.

We are more than willing to help with this, but it will take a little 'you show us pics or describe the pool and we'll ask clarifying questions, to which you respond' before we can give you a solid answer for your specific pool - it'll be fun

I know this can be done because I've done it before

Let us know ~exactly what were dealing with here and we'll respond

 

[ronm]

Here are the fist two pictures. Its a 12x24 oval pool under the 2x4's and chicken wire. The liner attaches where the vermiculite bottom meets the pool wall.

 

[ronm]

Here are three more pictures of the pool wall. All the seams in the pool wall have been caulked, there are small 1" bumps in the pool wall, and the tile boarder speaks or itself, its old and dated, tons of caulk on it.

 

[ronm]

Vermiculite is still solid but has some damage from nearby tree roots and basic settlement cracks that appear as a line in the vermiculite bottom.

 

[waste]

AHHH, I see what you've got

If you still have the old liner, somewhere on the back of it would be a sticker with the serial # - if you could contact the manufacturer they could simply remake the liner. If not, I'll tell you how to do A-B measurements.

With the roots, you'll want to rip them out and patch the floor where it gets torn up from doing that. (patching is far easier than fully troweling a floor 8) )

As you decide what you want to do, I (and others here) can help you with the 'how to's"

 

[ronm]

Ted,

On the liner there was no label that we could find.

On the pool wall, it has many little 1" bumps, like large mosquito bites on it and the seams in the pool wall where they have been joined together may be leaking as they have two layers of old caulk on them. It may be best to go with a full liner. We are in Al and can purchase a liner form TARA a local company.

Also we started to remove the tile around the pool boarder only to find out its plastic. Funny how many times i stepped on it and it never registered. The plastic pool boarder has small cracks in it that make it look shabby. Thats why you will see all the caulk on it. It porbably needs to be replaced. Thoughts? Once we get the plastic off, we will post some more pics of what we have.

Next going with the full liner, where can I buy the coping to attach the liner? I know of cardinal
http://www.poolsbycardinal.com/coping-systems.html but what other company choices do I have? I am looking for a coping system that goes beneath stone and has the ability to have a real 6x6 inch tile boarder. I seen two types of coping systems, one was where the real tiles slide in with no glue or grout and the other was where the tiles get glued and grouted to. Do you know where I can purchase these coping systems from?

TY .... Ron

 

[waste]

Hey Ron, sounds like the full liner would be your best option :| It also sounds like this project is starting to cost more and more :x You'll want to put wall foam (1/4") on the walls behind the liner to protect the new liner from any defects in the existing walls.

Cardinal is the company we get retro stairs and specialty coping from, I don't know who else makes this stuff.

Let's see what we're looking like once the tile comes off and then plan out the next step 8)

 

[ronm]

We just found out the pool walls and tile boarder are fiberglass. Thats great, since there will be no rust on the pool walls. We decided to cut the top surface of the tile boarder off. The top of the tile boarder has most of the damage with cracking, chipping, wear from the sun and use. We probably will keep the part of the tile boarder that is inside the pool. The openning created by removing the top of the tile boarder will provide a nice home for new concrete to lock in the new stone bull nose which will go around the pool. Also the grove under the fiberglass tile boarder which will remain will provide a nice edge to butt the new coping which will be used to attach the liner. Using a part of the existing fiberglass boarder will insure we keep the existing level grade of the pool.

What are your thoughts on doing the repair this way?

I also need to clean up the existing fiberglass tile boarder which will remain in the pool. I have worked in a auto body shop and I know we just need to sand the gelcoat slightly and it will look as good as new, then reapply a clear coating.

What approved pool product do I apply to the fiberglass tile boarder to seal the fiberglass after sanding is complete?
Where can I purchase the product(s)?

Next I need to repair the vermiculite bottom. As I read vermiculite is a 1 (portland cement) to 7 (masonary sand) mix.

Is this the correct mixture I should use?
How much should I mix up at one time?
How long do I have to work with the mix before it hardens?

Also on the vermiculite bottom, there are some cracks and also some spots which are very soft as a result of a prior water leak.

Do i chip out all the cracks, carve a V shape grove in the existing crack in the vermiculite bottom and fill with new?

On the soft vermiculite, should I take up the entire bottom 5'x5' section where it is soft and replace it with new?

Thanks Again -Ron