I'm getting RO done this week

[BuckeyeChris]

Just putting this here, as the option comes up in discussion every so often but I don't see a lot of threads about it. They are setting up the machine on Thursday and it will run 3-4 days I reckon.

They don't test for salt, just CH TDS CYA and TA. I told them I just want the CH to come down from 950 to 200. The real reason for the RO is to get the salt level down from 5500, as it's starting to taste bad and our travertine is falling apart.

I could have drained 70% of the pool, but our house softener regenerates every 1100 gallons, so it would take like 8 days to refill the pool.

$325 for pools under 25k gallons. Ekoclear/AuqaLabz here in Phoenix area.

I'll update this weekend.

 

[Cinic]

Tagged for interest.

How did your salt level get so high?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Let us know how it goes. Take water samples from the permeate line going back into the pool and the waste line. I bet the test results will be interesting.

I'm probably going to go the RO route in another season down here in Tucson. They just jacked up our water rates again and what would have cost $200 previously to drain and refill would now cost over $300. I think the RO companies are getting more business.

 

[max2k]

Let us know how it goes. Take water samples from the permeate line going back into the pool and the waste line. I bet the test results will be interesting.

I'm probably going to go the RO route in another season down here in Tucson. They just jacked up our water rates again and what would have cost $200 previously to drain and refill would now cost over $300. I think the RO companies are getting more business.

Wouldn't water softener be more useful overall or you're trying to get rid of something else besides CH? At least this is how I'm going to address high CH in my pool eventually.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Wouldn't water softener be more useful overall or you're trying to get rid of something else besides CH? At least this is how I'm going to address high CH in my pool eventually.

Few people install water softeners for pool fill. In my home, there is a service loop in the plumbing in the garage for a water softener but it is only tied to the internal plumbing; all external spigots are on their own loop. So in order to use a water softener on the pool fill line, I'd have to specifically install one outdoors and have it plumbed into the autofill line.

The way to deal with CH for me is to get my water RO'd and then try to use as much rain water collection as possible (along with a pool cover). I have an area of my flat roof that is over 2,000 square feet. When it rains, that downspout pours off hundreds of gallons of water. All I need is a couple of good rainwater storage tanks and I could easily replace several inches worth of water in my pool with each rainstorm.

 

[max2k]

Few people install water softeners for pool fill. In my home, there is a service loop in the plumbing in the garage for a water softener but it is only tied to the internal plumbing; all external spigots are on their own loop. So in order to use a water softener on the pool fill line, I'd have to specifically install one outdoors and have it plumbed into the autofill line.

The way to deal with CH for me is to get my water RO'd and then try to use as much rain water collection as possible (along with a pool cover). I have an area of my flat roof that is over 2,000 square feet. When it rains, that downspout pours off hundreds of gallons of water. All I need is a couple of good rainwater storage tanks and I could easily replace several inches worth of water in my pool with each rainstorm.

Makes sense, my situation is different- I 'think' my 'autofill' line runs from the garage oddly enough from one of the channels of irrigation controller so I'm going to re- route that to soft water while leaving irrigation with incoming water. Since my CH is 500 now and fill water at 170 I still have at least a year until it becomes real problem. I have scale on the tiles along water line and it's been this way or actually worse from the day we got the house 1.5 yrs ago. The CH also precipitates around the house so I need softener from that angle as well. The plan is to install softener and then slowly replace water in the pool over next 1-2 years by backwashing / draining during very rare rains around here. No space to put water storage tank either.

 

[camueller]

I'm not in AZ, but also have hard city water. Our house has a water softener and I have 2 outdoor spigots that are raw water, and 1 that is softened water. I top off with softened water when I have to use a hose.

With the RO treatment, I'm curious about how that works. I have a RO filter for my drinking water in my house, so I'm familiar with how much water it sends down the drain to make clean water. Does the water that would go to waste in a drinking water system just go back into the pool for a pool filter job? I can't figure out how that would do much good to clean the water. But I also figure you must not be dumping the water that gets rejected by the RO membrane.

 

[max2k]

I'm not in AZ, but also have hard city water. Our house has a water softener and I have 2 outdoor spigots that are raw water, and 1 that is softened water. I top off with softened water when I have to use a hose.

With the RO treatment, I'm curious about how that works. I have a RO filter for my drinking water in my house, so I'm familiar with how much water it sends down the drain to make clean water. Does the water that would go to waste in a drinking water system just go back into the pool for a pool filter job? I can't figure out how that would do much good to clean the water. But I also figure you must not be dumping the water that gets rejected by the RO membrane.

I believe RO is a 'mobile' service which come in the shape of a truck with independent pump, power source and pool size RO filter. It recirculates rejected water back into the filter and concentrates dissolved solids to much higher values than present in the pool so only fraction of the water (5-10%? ) eventually gets rejected and goes to the drain.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I believe RO is a 'mobile' service which come in the shape of a truck with independent pump, power source and pool size RO filter. It recirculates rejected water back into the filter and concentrates dissolved solids to much higher values than present in the pool so only fraction of the water (5-10%? ) eventually gets rejected and goes to the drain.

^^ That's correct.

The pool RO filtration systems are either driven by a diesel generator or hooked up to the homeowners electrical power. High pressure pumps and cascading arrays of RO filters are used. Typical wastewater ratios are about 15% or so. The pool owner has to add back that much in makeup water. Most companies just keep running the unit until the desired CH level is achieved (usually around 200ppm).

 

[camueller]

ahh, very interesting. Thank you both!

 

[isriam]

there is another thread if you search here that i posted an email from the company. i looked into it, but i'm managing my ch with lower TA for now.

also are you sure your softener is actually feeding the pool? i thought mine was, but it actually isn't. the pool builder bypassed it for the pool auto fill.

 

[Isaac-1]

I believe RO is a 'mobile' service which come in the shape of a truck with independent pump, power source and pool size RO filter. It recirculates rejected water back into the filter and concentrates dissolved solids to much higher values than present in the pool so only fraction of the water (5-10%? ) eventually gets rejected and goes to the drain.

Some are like what you describe and process all the water in a pool in a matter of hours, others are smaller electric plug in cart mounted units which take several days to slowly process the water in a typical pool. Either way the process is the same, just the rate of processing varies.

 

[Swampwoman]

Buckeye..that seems like a good price on the RO. What does the RO co say about iron removal? In household membranes, 2 ppm fouls super fast...but I'm curious as to whether this RO option would help some of our well peeps when things run amok Ask them if you get the chance.

Max2k, I don't wanna hijack Buckeyes report though this info might be useful to all dealing with hard water...in short, if you plumb your softener to fill line, I'd suggest upgrading to a dual softener system. Otherwise you can tap out/regenerate in the middle of a fill and not realize you're getting raw well water.

Ask me how I know -- I've now converted to a dual tank so one regenerates while the other is working so this solved the problem

 

[domct203]

Tagged for interest.

How did your salt level get so high?

Ditto.

Did you have a SWG at some point?

 

[DieselD]

I think I lucked out my with CH levels on the home we just bought. Sitting at 300 currently bjt was thinking it would be much higher. Curious to how you RO treatment works out and be interested to see pictures of the Equpitment

 

[ellsian]

Ditto.

Did you have a SWG at some point?

From checking his topic history, he does not have a SWG, but uses soft water for his autofill and manually adds bleach for chlorination. I'm guessing the excess salt is from the bleach and soft water over a number of years.

 

[BuckeyeChris]

Yeah, sorry all. Summary below.

Auto fill is softened. Nothing but bleach over 3 years. Approximate levels before process:
FC 5
pH 7.7
TA 50
CH 950
Salt 5400
CYA 45


Tech came out whole we were out of town. The unit is a box attached to a hand truck. Pump on the bench. RO water coming back via a hose to the other side of the pool. Second hose going around our house to the sewer dump. 3rd hose from our bib to the pool, as the auto-fill can't keep up with the water loss. Bib is post-softener.

Started Thursday at 4pm. I took CH and salt levels Friday afternoon and they were down to 650/2800. However, today the CH is at 350. The tech came by and swapped out the filters. 3 filters in this rig, about 3ft long each. Tech came by again today, he's been getti g the same Ch readings as I have, so that's good.

It's taking longer than anticipated. I think because my softener needs to regen every 1100 gallons, and this process has been using about 1200 gallons a day. I have started shutting off the tap and auto fill overnight while it regens. I think hard tap water has been getting in overnight, keeping the Ch up.
I'd say the water usage is more like 30%. Plus what I waste from my softener regen.

Last issue is that my fc went to 0 yesterday. The RO will eat the fc, plus filter the cya, which is probably way low now. I spiked with liquid cl, which is probably bad for the RO. I also put in some tabs, anchored on the far side of the pool from the RO pump. Should keep algae at bay another day.

Tech is leaving it one more day. He's been good. Their office staff was good too with coordinating.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Yeah, chlorine will destroy RO membranes so there's an activated charcoal pre filter to remove chlorine/chloramines.

I just measured my CH this week and I'm up at 950ppm. Looks like RO will be in my very near future too...

 

[zea3]

Once they are finished you will need to re-balance the pool. RO is great for getting rid of excess calcium and CYA, but it is not offered in enough locations for it to be a replacement for drain and refill in most cases. In an area with inexpensive water and no use restrictions a drain and refill will be quicker and more cost effective.

I have heard that RO companies will not process algae filled water. Do you know if this is true of the company you are working with as well?

 

[DMS2014]

sometimes I feel really ignorant when I read some signature lines or see a post about something I've never heard of -- like a Venturi Skimmer water sheet or a wok pot waterfall BUT I didn't see your test kit listed (which the experts like to see if you need help with your chems)