South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living - STARTUP PHASE

[grumpiebk]

COMPLETE - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Hello TFP! You may have noticed me lurking around the last month or so. I figured I would officially introduce myself and tell you about our upcoming build. My name is Brian and we are building a geometric pool, spa, and outdoor living space at our home in Palm Beach County, Florida. While our contracts are signed, the final design details are still in limbo as evidenced by my other posts. I will be posting all updates on our future progress here. If I had to guess we are about 4-8 weeks from our dig date (waiting on permitting for home addition for covered patio).

UPDATE TO INCLUDE FINAL DESIGN AND SPECS - Sorry we dont have 3D renderings, just our plans

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Here are the specs:

Gunite Rectangular IG - 34'x17' (we added a 1' of width and length since plans) not including 7'x11' sunshelf; 114 linear feet perimeter; 650sqft; 17K gallons
Spa - 6'x8' rectangular raised spa (18"); 8 jets including a tri-seat (thanks for the idea Brian/bdrex28); glass tile (lightwaves aquamarine 1x2 inside and out
Decking - 2,100 sqft of premium grade ivory tumbled travertine pavers in french pattern
Covered Patio - 16'X40' 3 column covered patio with barrel tile roof, 3 fans, and 8 high-hat lights

Details from our pool builder proposal:

ENGINEERING:
Engineered plans and necessary normal permitting.
Normal grading and removal of sod from pool and deck area.
Steel reinforcing specifically engineered for swimming pool requirements.

EXCAVATION:
Standard size excavation equipment.
Excavate pool area and remove excavated fill to approved dump site or leave and spread excavated fill.
Remove and replace existing fence by professional pool builder contractor.
Cut and cap sprinkler system by a professional pool builder contractor (note that sprinkler company will do all they
can to allow the balance of your sprinkler system to operate during pool construction). Buyer to re-route
sprinkler system at job completion.

GUNITE & BACKFILL:
High strength “Bond Beam” constructed gunite pool shell.
Backfill pool structure and compact at 2 foot intervals.
Lifetime structural warranty.

PLUMBING FIXTURES & WARRANTY:
3 return inlets.
Aqua Star safety “Channel 3” main drain.
Deluxe automatic wide mouth skimmer with overflow line.
Separate pool cleaner line.
Overflow line (to maintain the water level in the event of rain).
Equalizer line to protect pump from burning out in the event of a low pool water level.
Deluxe “Never Lube” valves.
3 year materials & labor warranty on all PVC plumbing.
Lifetime structural warranty.

COPING & TILE:
Coping: 8"x16" Travertine laid end to end.
Tile: Six (6) inch band of standard ceramic waterline tile.
“Thermo-Seal” behind waterline tile to prevent leaks.

LIGHTING:
4 Pentair LED color lights (2 in main pool, one on sun shelf, and one in spa).

DECKING:
Remove existing paver patio & replace with Travertine.
2,000 sf of Grade A French Pattern “Tumbled” Travertine (including deck bonding below the deck)

SPA:
6’x8' rectangular 18" raised spa w/8 hydro-jets (incl 2 air controls), bench, dual main drain, glass tile trim on spa seat, LED color spa light, marble spillway, glass mosaic tiled dam wall & tile around entire perimeter of spa.

SANITATION:
Pentair Intellichlor IC60 salt generator.

WATERFEATURE(S):
3clear bubblers on sun shelf.

HEATER:
Hayward 5 h.p. 140,000 BTU heat pump.

SUN SHELF:
Sun shelf (7’ x 11’) with tile trim edge, Pentair LED color light & umbrella sleeve.

POOL EQUIPMENT (pump(s) & filter):
Pentair Intelliflow 3.0 Variable Speed (w/on board programming).
Pentair Clean & Clear Cartridge (CC420) Filter.

STANDARD SWIMMING POOL FEATURES:
5.5' Deep end swimout with tile trim edge.
8' bench along far side of spa.
One set of hand formed shallow end steps with tile edge trim.

INTERIOR FINISH:
“Quartz” e. g. Florida Gem, Diamond Brite, Quartzscapes, etc. (standard colors).

ELECTRICAL HOOK-UP ITEMS:
Standard hook-up of pump & light(s).
Salt machine.
Heater.
Pentair EasyTouch 8 automation system.

SERVICE & INSTRUCTIONS:
Initial start-up service and instructions up to 30 days chemicals and pool service.

BUYERS RESPONSIBILITY:
Re-route sprinkler system at job completion.
Sod replacement if required by HOA.

ADDITIONAL WORK BY POOL BUILDER:
One Hayward “Blu” pool cleaner (free add-on).
Electrical conduit for future line no closer than 10’ to pool.

Here is the future location of our project!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Brian,

I noticed that you don't appear to have an automation system? Is this correct? If so:

1. You will be limited to setting your SWG in 20% increments, instead of 1% with automation.

2. You will not have the ability to switch between the Pool mode and Spa mode without have to manually turn valves

3. You won't have the ability to monitor your pool from your PC or phone.

4. You won't have the ability to automatically turn your spa spillover on and off.

5. You won't have the ability to select or change pump speeds with one or two clicks on your PC.

Maybe I just missed it.

And.. make sure you get the IC60, SWG instead of the normal IC40.

Jim R.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Thanks, Jim. You are right. In fact as you were writing this I edited my
post to ask about automation. I am still clueless on managing SWG and chemistry, so the only thing that resonated right now is the turning the valves on comment!

 

[twinkiesmommy2009]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

1 - How does our equipment rate? We've gone with Pentair for almost everything except heater (our research suggest the Hayward heaters are a little better). Anything I am missing or I should reconsider? The models of the Pentair SWG and Pentair Filter cartridges are not currently specificed in my proposal. What do I most likely need and why?
2 - This forum really stresses the importance of plaster selection which originally didnt seem like a big decision to us. Diamond Brite seems to be the standard here in Florida. And we prefer the smooth surfaces. Any thoughts on this?
3 - Our pool builder suggested we add a second LED light to the pool as we increased it in size from 30' to 34' in our design stage. Do we really need a second?
4 - I havent even started looking at testing and maintaining water chemistry, but will sharpen up on that in the next couple of months.
5 - Should I be considering adding jets to our spa? Ive seen a lot of 10 jet spas on the site, but cant appreciate the real difference.
6 - We did not opt for automation. Is it worth it for our setup? And what is a reasonable cost to add automation?

Hi grumpie! I'll answer what I can and it will bump your post also.

3 - I have two and wish I'd added a 3rd. [emoji5]
5 - we have an 8' spa with 8 jets. I wish I would have increased to 10-12 and might have added one of the tri seat set-ups.
6 - Our pool has only been running for 3 weeks and I only have to go to the valves for one small feature. We have the Pentair Screen Logic. I can't imagine not having it. Going to the valves for that one feature is quite inconvenient, lol. I definitely recommend automation!!


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[bmoreswim]

New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Hi - I may have commented elsewhere in one of your threads. Welcome to TFP.
Lights - you absolutely want two in the main pool. One will be underwhelming. Two will be perfect in that size.
Agree with max size on the SWCG. It's the best long term value proposition.
Test kit. Get the TF-100, with SpeedStir and salt test. Don't nickel and dime and leave off the SpeedStir. It's the best thing since sliced bread for simplifying testing and making results consistent from test to test.
Automation - Regarding the ability to only make SWCG changes in 20% increments. This is a big deal. A 20% limitation will limit your ability to 'dial in' your salt cell to produce the correct amount of chlorine. Sometimes a 10% increment change on ours is too much (we can go 5% increments). I have a different system but the concept is identical.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Brian,

It is easy for me to spend your money.. but don't let me talk you into anything. Many people have pools without automation and they work just fine. I do, however, think it is important to know the advantages and the disadvantages of having an automation system.

1. Automation will help you with pool maintenance, but it will not replace the need for you to test your water, understand what you are looking at, and then making sure your water is balanced. (Another reason you need the accuracy of the TF100 test kit.)

2. The main downside to automation is cost. So before going too far down this path, you might ask your PB what it's going to cost. That said, the best time to install automation is when the pool is being built, because all the connections to the system can be made without having to figure out how you are to get power across 50' of new deck. Also, the additional cost, when compared to the cost of the pool, will be miniscule.

3. Automation systems work best when the same brand is used because then the pieces can "talk" to together. So, in your case I would recommend the EasyTouch 4 (or 8) that has a built in power supply for the SWG and generally comes with the SWG and two valves. ScreenLogic2 is an absolute requirement if you want to be able to control things from your PC or Phone.

Here is a list of what I think the advantages are:

1. Appearance. Instead of having a bunch of different boxes hanging on your wall you have one, professional looking enclosure.

2. Circuit Breaker Panel. The bottom half of the enclosure is a circuit-breaker panel where the breakers for your pool equipment (Pumps, Heater, etc.) are located. This panel is also an excellent place to add surge protector, which is an absolute must if you have the Intelliflo pump. Even if you do not get the automation, make sure your PB includes a surge protector for the pump.

3. SWG Control. Without automation, your SWG will have to have a timer, synced to the pump timer so that it does not run when the pump is off. This function is built into the EasyTouch.

4. Spa mode and SWG output. Normally all the water flows through the SWG, so when in the Spa mode, the EasyTouch reduces the amount of chlorine the SWG produces, so that the Spa users are not subjected to high levels of chlorine.

5. Pool Lighting. The EasyTouch allows you to control your pool lighting from your PC and/or from a schedule. This is another reason to add the EasyTouch now. Once your pool light is wired to switches inside your house, it might be very difficult to get the wiring to any automation system.

6. Control of Spill-over and bubblers. Right now I'm sure you are thinking I want that spillover running 24-hours a day because it is so beautiful.. Well, after a few weeks of having your pH go through the roof, you'll appreciate the ability to only turn it on, when you want it on. The same with the bubblers. With the Easytouch, you can program them to run on a schedule for a few minutes a day to keep the everything properly chlorinated or when you want to "show off" to your guests..

7. Relay Control. The EasyTouch 4 has four (really three) relays that can be used to control other things, such as landscape lights. (The EasyTouch has 8 (really 7) relays.

8. Built in Valve controls. The EasyTouch has the ability to control 4 valves. Two work for switching between the Pool and Spa modes, while two others can be programmed to do whatever you might want, like bubbler control. I would note that a lot of bubblers are controlled by manual valves that cannot be automated. You need to be sure to tell your PB that you want Jandy style valves for your bubbler control.

9. Heater Control. The EasyTouch can control your heater.. So, you can be inside and tell your PC what temperature you want the Spa to be and it will tell you when it is ready.

10. ScreenLogic. ScreenLogic allow you to program the EasyTouch with various schedules. It lets you see most all of the inputs and output to the EasyTouch and lets you decide what you want on/off and in the case of your SWG, lets you adjust the % of output on the fly.

But.. don't let me talk you into it.

Jim R.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Thanks. It sounds like I've got the right lighting setup for our size pool. As for your feedback on automation, I am probably going to take some heat for this, but I am likely going to hire someone to maintain our pool. With very little knowledge of pool chemistry thus far, does that change anything? As Jim pointed out there are still quite a few benefits of automation outside of managing the SWG more precisely.

 

[twinkiesmommy2009]

New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

I didn't know anything about pools or chemistry but I learned fast and it is easy peasy. Post any questions here and they help with any confusion. I wasn't great at chemistry in high school but this isn't that. Admittedly I'm OCD but knowing what I know about pools and their chemistry now, I won't put my little toes in a pool maintained by a service. We don't swim at friends houses unless I know they use the TFP method because - yuck. [emoji23] If you hire someone, make sure they do it right and don't just stick tabs in your skimmer once a week. [emoji51][emoji13]


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[Jimrahbe]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Thanks. It sounds like I've got the right lighting setup for our size pool. As for your feedback on automation, I am probably going to take some heat for this, but I am likely going to hire someone to maintain our pool. With very little knowledge of pool chemistry thus far, does that change anything? As Jim pointed out there are still quite a few benefits of automation outside of managing the SWG more precisely.

Automation is much more about ease of use than it is about chemicals.

Its your pool and your decision. Just let us know if you have any questions in the future.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[txnole]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

100% get the automation and - you may not like this comment - but try maintaining your own pool for 3 months. Will you have a screen enclosure? With the automation, enclosure and a pool robot, you'll be shocked at how manageable your pool will be. You may find yourself spending 15 minutes once a week and saving $750-$1000 per year.

With Pentair equipment, I think you're badly short-sighted not to do automation, especially the EasyTouch system. Think of it this way, when you re-sale, the other homes in PB will have it and you will not. Between the ease of use and the resale, this is a no-brained regardless of the PB's quote to install.

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Practically anyone who has basic intelligence, some discipline and a good test kit can maintain their pool.
As others have, I too encourage you to do it and I think you will surprise yourself.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

Dont get me wrong, I am not opposed to trying to maintain my pool myself, I just have no clue yet what it will entail. Most of my neighbors have their pool maintained so my expectation was that was the norm. i am certainly going to give it a shot, especially if the automation makes it easier.

What about our equipment, plaster selection, and spa jet count? Any more thoughts?

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

100% get the automation and - you may not like this comment - but try maintaining your own pool for 3 months. Will you have a screen enclosure? With the automation, enclosure and a pool robot, you'll be shocked at how manageable your pool will be. You may find yourself spending 15 minutes once a week and saving $750-$1000 per year.

With Pentair equipment, I think you're badly short-sighted not to do automation, especially the EasyTouch system. Think of it this way, when you re-sale, the other homes in PB will have it and you will not. Between the ease of use and the resale, this is a no-brained regardless of the PB's quote to install.

Thanks txnole. I am a FSU alumn myself (class of 2005). Looking forward to the upcoming football season. As for your questions, I will not have an enclosure but will not have any trees within striking distance of the pool.

It seems to be a consensus that I am missing out without the automation. Honestly, the pool builder asked me if i wanted it without "selling" it to me. I just thought it would save me from turning a couple of valves when I want the hot tub on. Clearly I am exaggerating here, but I certainly did not know all of the benefits. I am going to dig back through my emails and see what they charged for the automation system.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

I found my first proposal from back at the end of April! Man our project has surely increased in scope since then! Here is what was listed as an option for automation:

"Automation – Pool/spa automatic controls including an outdoor control panel & hand held “waterproof”
wireless remote with digital read-out (includes credit for “Color Logic Light Switch) $ 1,500.00"

From everything I am hearing, it sure seems worth it now. Our builder has really been brand indifferent and said that I can choose my preferred brand for the same price. So this price is probably for the EasyTouch 4 and will be an add-on for any upgrade.

A couple of questions on automation:
1 - I am guessing the ScreenLogic would be an add-on on top of the EasyTouch?
2 - Can ScreenLogic be used from multiple devices (i.e. my phone and my wifes phone, computer, ipad, etc)?
3 - Would I still need the in-home wall switch? PB quoted the automation in exchange for the switch. If I keep both, automation is $1800 and not $1500.

 

[txnole]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

First and foremost, #GoNoles.

For many people, the remote is all they need. That's all we have because - honestly - why futz with my phone when you have the waterproof remote? For your purpose, the lighting modes can be programmed into the pool remote and your good to go. $1500 is a good price am definitely worth it. Beyond just turning the spa on/off, here are things that your automation can control: SWG level, temp control for spa heat (a little less for kiddos, a little more for old dudes), Intelliflo speeds/schedules (faster mode for 1-2 hours to skim since you don't have enclosure and then slower for chemicals / turning water over), open/close valves for bubblers, lighting effects, and future upgrades (for example, our outdoor gas fireplace is controlled by the pool remote - see sig pics).

For equipment, I have much the same Pentair equipment. In the past you could get a warranty extension to 3years if you had 3 pentair products - adding pentair automation should get you that coverage if still offered. The only suggestion I would make is to look into a small (1hp) blower for the spa. It gives you that rolling boil feel at very low cost.

On your bid, I would also check to see that your builder is removing all of your excavated dirt vs. your responsibility.

Lastly, I had great service from a company down your way (TravertineMart) to self-source our stone. I took a credit against the materials to supply the stone for our builder and SAVED $7-$8 per sq. ft.

 

[grumpiebk]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

First and foremost, #GoNoles.

For many people, the remote is all they need. That's all we have because - honestly - why futz with my phone when you have the waterproof remote? For your purpose, the lighting modes can be programmed into the pool remote and your good to go. $1500 is a good price am definitely worth it. Beyond just turning the spa on/off, here are things that your automation can control: SWG level, temp control for spa heat (a little less for kiddos, a little more for old dudes), Intelliflo speeds/schedules (faster mode for 1-2 hours to skim since you don't have enclosure and then slower for chemicals / turning water over), open/close valves for bubblers, lighting effects, and future upgrades (for example, our outdoor gas fireplace is controlled by the pool remote - see sig pics).

For equipment, I have much the same Pentair equipment. In the past you could get a warranty extension to 3years if you had 3 pentair products - adding pentair automation should get you that coverage if still offered. The only suggestion I would make is to look into a small (1hp) blower for the spa. It gives you that rolling boil feel at very low cost.

On your bid, I would also check to see that your builder is removing all of your excavated dirt vs. your responsibility.

Lastly, I had great service from a company down your way (TravertineMart) to self-source our stone. I took a credit against the materials to supply the stone for our builder and SAVED $7-$8 per sq. ft.

so you don't use the screen logic? Great suggestions on blower, excavation, and travertine. I'm pretty sure excavation is on them but I'll check since I am going back with a bunch of questions. I'm only paying $9.50 /sqft for our tumbled travertine with French pattern installation, so there may not be a big savings opportunity there but wort checking. And yes the Pentair warranty is still offered.

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

I have only a few deck lights, pool LED's and SWCG but I LOVE our automation. It is one more thing to break but they seem pretty reliable from what I've seen here. I almost never hear someone saying they need to replace theirs.

 

[bmoreswim]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

And on maintaining the chemistry, I forgot to add that with the support of TFP, I guarantee you that you can do it and for MUCH more cheaply than any service.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

I found my first proposal from back at the end of April! Man our project has surely increased in scope since then! Here is what was listed as an option for automation:

"Automation – Pool/spa automatic controls including an outdoor control panel & hand held “waterproof”
wireless remote with digital read-out (includes credit for “Color Logic Light Switch) $ 1,500.00"

From everything I am hearing, it sure seems worth it now. Our builder has really been brand indifferent and said that I can choose my preferred brand for the same price. So this price is probably for the EasyTouch 4 and will be an add-on for any upgrade.

A couple of questions on automation:
1 - I am guessing the ScreenLogic would be an add-on on top of the EasyTouch?
2 - Can ScreenLogic be used from multiple devices (i.e. my phone and my wifes phone, computer, ipad, etc)?
3 - Would I still need the in-home wall switch? PB quoted the automation in exchange for the switch. If I keep both, automation is $1800 and not $1500.

ScreenLogic 2 can be added later. On-line cost is a little less than $400. It basically connects your EasyTouch to your PC and then the Internet. So you can control things from your pc or any Internet/Wi-Fi device, such as your phone. The app is free and you could have it on any number of devices. Although, some of that just does not make practical sense. I use my PC and that is all I need.

If you have the EasyTouch then I see no reason for a manual switch inside your house. I suggest you just ask your PB to let you visit someone in your area that already has it installed. Be careful though.. once you see it in operation it will be very hard to resist.

Jim R.

 

[twinkiesmommy2009]

Re: New Build - South Florida Pool & Outdoor Living

I have the EasyTouch 8 and Screen Logic 2. I LOVE IT. We have the app on both of our phones and the computer. Hubby can start heating up the hot tub on his way home from work if wants. The remote only works locally when connected to your wifi but the Screen Logic will work even when you aren't home. We had an old iPhone 4 that had been connected to Sprint at one time so doesn't take a SIM card. I ordered a Lifeproof waterproof case for it and a Lifeproof floaty thing for less than $30 on Amazon. Now I have a remote that is also not my phone and an underwater camera! Working great so far!! SO glad we went with this upgrade.


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