Muriatic acid scares me

[PoolingAround]

I went to lowes to buy some acid and all they had was this below.

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Crown-1-Gallon-Muriatic-Acid/4146121


I've been warned that the safe to use acid is diluted. However, when I read the back it says 20 Baume, 31.45%. So, was it that way before they made it safe, or is it still full strength?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

As others have stated, handling muriatic acid carefully is important but there is way too much fear surrounding the fumes and smell. First off, the odor threshold for MA is A LOT lower than any acute toxic inhalation threshold. The odor threshold of HCl is ~ 5ppm in air, the acute inhalation toxicity (LC50, or lethal concentration that kills 50% of a subject group) is over 3100ppm with a 1-hr exposure time in rats. So, you can see that any toxic effects require over 600 times the amount of HCl that you can smell and you need to inhale that level of HCl for over an hour. A simple whiff of the vapors will do no harm to you (but it might clear your sinuses on a bad pollen day....).

As for personal protective equipment (PPEs), here's what I learned in my many years of OSHA Industrial Hygiene & Safety training classes - it is better to wear no PPEs at all than to wear the wrong PPEs. You should NEVER wear any form of dust mask or mouth/nose covering with muriatic acid as you can actually make the exposure worse by trapping vapor in the mask and rebreathing them. The only suitable form of a mask for high concentration acid exposure is a full-face fitted SCBA mask (like the kind firefighters wear when going into a burning building). You are far better off wearing NO MASK AT ALL, then putting a dusk mask over your nose and mouth and potentially causing yourself more harm. The same goes for goggles - the correct eye protective wear are simple, splash resistant safety glasses. You want something over your eyes that allows vapors to harmlessly pass through them but that will protect your eyes against an inadvertent splash. Fully fitted lab googles are the wrong choice. As well, if you were ever to get an acid splash in your eye, the best thing to do is jump into the pool water and use your fingers to hold your eye lids open while under the water - your pool is like a giant eyewash fountain.

Also, I would advise against serial dilutions into 5 gallon buckets. Either pour from the bottle directly into the pool or measure a SMALL AMOUNT of acid into a LARGE MEASURING CUP and pour. Pouring acid into a bucket of water risks causing a boiling water accident (concentrated MA can actually raise the temperature of water to the boiling point as it hydrates) OR cause excessive splashing of low pH, acidic water onto your deck. It in no way makes the acid any safer to dilute it because MA is a strong acid - even one cup of MA in 1 gallon of water lowers the pH of the resulting water solution to less than 1. A bucket full of acidic water is just as bad as a small cup of concentrated acid.

 

[Durk]

Am I only the one who pours from the bottle and just feels it out for how much they are adding?

Been doing that for 40 years. I use the Taylor Acid Demand and one drop means 1/3 of a gallon MA needed in my pool. Pretty easy to ' feel'.

Better than the pool guys in the Bahamas I've seen that liked to stand on the diving board and pour from up there.

 

[cdchris1]

I have been using Acid Magic. It is full strength MA, but has some buffering agents that reduce the fumes, and keeps it from burning you skin if you happen to splash. Our pool builder recommended it. It is a little more expensive, but not too bad. The pool stores have it significantly higher, but I have found it at hardware stores for a lot less. I have been trying to lower my TA, so I have been going through a lot. It seems to work just as well as the regular stuff.

 

[jeffchap]

Am I only the one who pours from the bottle and just feels it out for how much they are adding?

No, you are not.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I have been using Acid Magic. It is full strength MA, but has some buffering agents that reduce the fumes, and keeps it from burning you skin if you happen to splash. Our pool builder recommended it. It is a little more expensive, but not too bad. The pool stores have it significantly higher, but I have found it at hardware stores for a lot less. I have been trying to lower my TA, so I have been going through a lot. It seems to work just as well as the regular stuff.

Can you please post the product info or link to MSDS as that claim is highly suspect. One typically does not nor can not buffer a strongly concentrated acid like MA.

My Baloney Sandwich detector is flashing....

PS - MA does not burn on contact with skin. It takes several minutes before damage starts. It's easily washed off before it becomes an issue. Dry acid (sodium bisulfate) is far worse to come into skin contact with.

 

[cdchris1]

Here is the link to the web page. The MSDS is on there as well as several other documents.

http://www.certol.com/acidmagichome/

I should clarify my skin burning statement. Regular MA did irritate my finger when I mistakenly used a bare finger to break the seal. I did the same thing with this stuff (in a moment of superior intellect) to test the claim. It is not cause the same irritation as the straight MA.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Here is the link to the web page. The MSDS is on there as well as several other documents.

http://www.certol.com/acidmagichome/

I should clarify my skin burning statement. Regular MA did irritate my finger when I mistakenly used a bare finger to break the seal. I did the same thing with this stuff (in a moment of superior intellect) to test the claim. It is not cause the same irritation as the straight MA.

Unfortunately, that MSDS does not clarify anything. They claim in section 3 that their product contains hydrochloric acid and "other ingredients" but does not specify concentrations for either.

Based on the specific gravity information (1.10), that puts the concentration of the HCl at slightly above 20% which would be 15 Baume HCl. So, if they do not disclose adding anything else but HCl, then what you're paying for is cheap, 15 Baume muriatic acid which you can buy locally at any Home Depot for probably slightly less than the markup you're paying through whatever distributor you purchase the AcidMagic from.

Chemically speaking, there is no way to "buffer" concentrated acid; that is simply impossible. So unless they're adding some kind of thickening agent to make the surface tension of the liquid higher and thus reduce evaporation, you're paying for nothing more than marketing.

[EDIT]

And just to add, 15 Baume muriatic acid in the hardware stores is often marketed as "low fuming" or "green" acid. When the concentration of HCl in water drops to 20% and lower, the "fuming" all but ceases and there's very little odor from it. You will also not feel as much irritation on your skin simply because the vapor above the liquid will contain much less acid in it. I have experienced what you describe when I open a hot bottle of MA (I leave mine outside and the bottle can easily get over 100F) - the acid vapors will rush out and hit the sweat on the skin of my hand and slightly irritate it (itchy feeling). The solution is simply for me to put my hand in the pool water and the irritation goes away.

[END-EDIT]

 

[Amail]

Something I've not seen mentioned yet - ALWAYS pour acid into water - NEVER pour water into acid. In case you're thinking you'd pour a measure of acid into a bucket, then add water to fill it; DON'T DO THAT.

 

[cdchris1]

While I cannot speak to the chemistry, my additions match my PoolMath expectations, so I figured it is close to the 31.45% listed there. Whatever the case, I do notice less fumes and skin irritation than straight MA which justify the extra $2/gal at the hardware store. It works for me!

 

[Ncdamsel]

Just out of curiosity, since we are talking about Muriatic acid, I use very little durn pool season does it go bad like bleach or can I keep it to use next year I am sure I will have most of the jug left over I got at the first of this season??? any one know

 

[camueller]

Just out of curiosity, since we are talking about Muriatic acid, I use very little durn pool season does it go bad like bleach or can I keep it to use next year I am sure I will have most of the jug left over I got at the first of this season??? any one know

Everything I've read around here says it does not go bad. Certainly not the way bleach is, thankfully.

 

[Lykly]

I have never been at all uncomfortable adding acid. I simply pour the desired amount of acid from the gallon jug into a plastic measuring cup, walk over to the pool and slowly pour along the side of my pool in front of the returns. No biggie. Common sense.


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[Admiral688]

Been doing that for 40 years. I use the Taylor Acid Demand and one drop means 1/3 of a gallon MA needed in my pool. Pretty easy to ' feel'.

Better than the pool guys in the Bahamas I've seen that liked to stand on the diving board and pour from up there.

I do the Bahama pool guy method. This let's me dump it at my deep section around my floor returns so the acid is more easily dispersed in my pool.

MA isn't scary at all if handled correctly. I just make sure there is no wind while I am doing it. I usually add one whole gallon at a time when I need to deal with my ph.

 

[Frankhugus]

I pour 6oz into a plastic measuring cup and pour in near a jet. Definitely brush the area just to disperse and don't store near your bleach. Really not a big deal.

 

[wpbucher]

I found that about 32 oz of MA will raise the PH on my pool (25K gallons) by .2. I use about 32 oz about every nine days during pool season due to my SWCG and spillover spa. I go to HD and buy the two pack of gallons out in the yard near masonry stuff. It has a picture of a pool on the bottle. I purchase eight 32 oz poweraide bottles. Consume contents and remove labels. I then use a sharpie and write acid on the cap and the sides of the bottle. "Mr. Yuk" stickers also work. On a day with a slight breeze, I put on gloves, goggles, and respirator...then position my self "upwind" and fill the eight poweraide bottles with MA. I then place 32 oz bottles in 14 gallon rough tote and store outside near pool pad.

When I need to add acid: (1) Fill HD 5-gallon bucket 2/3 to 3/4 full of water from shallow end of pool. (2) Remove rubbermaid lid and stand back (sometimes a cloud comes out). (3) Remove a quart and position myself upwind of bucket. (4) Carefully pour MA into water in bucket (5) rinse poweraid bottle and cap in shallow end of pool. (6) Dump HD bucket with water/MA combination in deep end of pool (7) Rinse out HD bucket in shallow end (8) stir around MA in deep end with brush. (9) Cover rubbermaid tote (10) Allow poweraide bottle and cap to completely dry before returning to rubbermaide tote.

Poweraide bottles are ideal because they are heavy and have a wide mouth. I don't use any protective gear once I have the MA in the poweraide bottles.

This works for me. Figure out your "typical dose" of MA and split it up into easy to use bottles.

 

[camueller]

I found that about 32 oz of MA will raise the PH on my pool (25K gallons) by .2. I use about 32 oz about every nine days during pool season due to my SWCG and spillover spa. I go to HD and buy the two pack of gallons out in the yard near masonry stuff. It has a picture of a pool on the bottle. I purchase eight 32 oz poweraide bottles. Consume contents and remove labels. I then use a sharpie and write acid on the cap and the sides of the bottle. "Mr. Yuk" stickers also work. On a day with a slight breeze, I put on gloves, goggles, and respirator...then position my self "upwind" and fill the eight poweraide bottles with MA. I then place 32 oz bottles in 14 gallon rough tote and store outside near pool pad.

When I need to add acid: (1) Fill HD 5-gallon bucket 2/3 to 3/4 full of water from shallow end of pool. (2) Remove rubbermaid lid and stand back (sometimes a cloud comes out). (3) Remove a quart and position myself upwind of bucket. (4) Carefully pour MA into water in bucket (5) rinse poweraid bottle and cap in shallow end of pool. (6) Dump HD bucket with water/MA combination in deep end of pool (7) Rinse out HD bucket in shallow end (8) stir around MA in deep end with brush. (9) Cover rubbermaid tote (10) Allow poweraide bottle and cap to completely dry before returning to rubbermaide tote.

Poweraide bottles are ideal because they are heavy and have a wide mouth. I don't use any protective gear once I have the MA in the poweraide bottles.

This works for me. Figure out your "typical dose" of MA and split it up into easy to use bottles.

I guess Powerade bottles are HDPE? That's interesting. I just looked at a coca cola bottle, and it is not, even though we all know that stuff is pretty acidic.

 

[Vickery]

When we bought our house with pool I depended upon the P$ for guidance. I found a left of over jug of MA in the shop, sitting in a plastic bucket, covered in small blisters. After I discovered TFP I realized what the MA was for and used it. The jug was rather degraded. Be careful what you use for storage containers.

 

[wpbucher]

I guess Powerade bottles are HDPE? That's interesting. I just looked at a coca cola bottle, and it is not, even though we all know that stuff is pretty acidic.

I don't think they are HDPE. If you store acid in them over the winter, they start to cloud up. I typically use new bottles every season and I don't store acid in them over the winter.

 

[Geebot]

Am I only the one who pours from the bottle and just feels it out for how much they are adding?

That's my method. Given the significant dilution I'm not worried about adding too much. I do the lazy-man's titration method: pour some in, test after about an hour. If it needs more then I'll pour more in.