Why do I keep eating Pump Motors?

[JumboShrimp]

I just replaced another motor on my Hayward pump - I put a new one on early LAST season. Its always the same thing... the black wire is toasted inside the round motor cover. I've bought spare motors from several places - always the exact same specs / same box / same 'made in china'.

There is ONE Electric Motor shop in my HomeTown - When you walk in there is a sign on the counter - "We do NOT repair Swimming Pool Motors" - Ain't THAT nice?

Pump is oversized for the pool - runs 9A-9P every day - Auto Pilot Salt pool - motor is controlled by the Auto Pilot - I bring it all inside in the winter (Central PA Area) - Runs 110V

I always keep a spare but this is getting crazy - how long SHOULD one last? Or are they just typical China Junk and I should live with it?

Is the motor having an internal short and the wire melts? Is the wire (14-2 w/ ground stranded) too small?
Just looking for some help - I think I should get a few seasons AT LEAST out of a motor

Here's a pic of the motor - this is the replacement but has the same specs as the OEM Hayward
Thanks for any input...
JS

 

[mas985]

Are you sure you are getting the correct size? THP or Label HP * SF is what is important.

What is the pump make/mode?

Do you have a part # from the impeller (usually stamped on the side)?

Are you replacing the motor seal with each motor?

What is the condition of the diffuser and impeller ring?

 

[setsailsoon]

Are you rotating the dial for low voltage? I don't know much about using 110v motors in this service. What is the wire size in the supply wire and how long is it? Your question focuses on the electrical issue do I'm assuming there's no indication of seal problem with the pump... is this correct?




Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[robhdrider]

I would verify the supply voltage with the pump off, and again with it running, as well as amps while running. While unlikely you are pulling max amps if you have the proper impeller, your wire size is at the limit for a 15 amp load. If you happen to have low supply voltage this will increase the amp load.

Under proper operating conditions I would expect to get at least 10 years out of a motor with your limited season and run times. I have a similar season, run 24/7 and was around 12-15 years on my 1st motor, the second one was still working fine 2 years ago when I replaced the pump at 24 total years.

 

[danpik]

When you say this...the black wire is toasted inside the round motor cover., do you mean the internal wire for the motor or the supply wire connected to the motor?

We need to verify some things here. First is the actual voltage at the motor, not the assumed voltage. This can be measured with both the pump running and the pump off with a meter. How long is the wire run that is feeding this? Also, as was mentioned, 14 g wire is really too small for this motor as the run current is 15 amps at 120 volts. I am surprised that the pump does not trip the breaker (assuming a 15 amp breaker/fuse). Ideally this circuit should be a 20 amp breaker with 12g wire min.

Burned wires only happen from current generated heat (too many amps)

 

[Bama Rambler]

How many motors have you replaced on this particular pump?

Answer the questions above as well as mine below if you can.

Have you checked the amps when it running to see what it is?

Can you list your pool equipment?
Pump,
Filter type and size,
Return size,
Eyeball size and quantity.

 

[dsmith99]

As a couple posters already suggested, I would also suspect the wiring to the pump. Either too long of a wiring run or too small gauge of wire, or both together creating a significant voltage drop at the pump. Is this pump possibly running on an extension cord? If so it would need to be a very heavy duty cord and as short as possible. You need to check voltage at the pump while running, and again while off to calculate how much voltage drop you have, I suspect too much. Testing amp draw could also help, but won't be of much use if you have a large voltage drop.

 

[JumboShrimp]

WOW!!! Thanks for all the replies!!

The pump is a hayward superpump - Super Pump | Pumps | In Ground Pool Pumps - Hayward Pool Products
The OEM Gold motor lasted for 6 years then got real noisy (bearings) and died. The replacement motors were supposed to be the exact same spec - maybe even a little stronger. The seals are new - I replace them when I swap motors. It is running on an 'extension' cord but its just 12g SJ wire that I made up when I installed the Auto Pilot. It plugs into a 15 Amp (I think) GFI mounted 5' away in the vinyl fence post - all the connections are weather resistant.
I will double check the voltage and draw - the motor runs very hot (I was just out there and felt it). This could have something to do with it and will be the first place I look - My son is an Elect. Engineer and will be a big help here

Some other answers to ?'s
the impeller is in perfect condition - part #SP2607-c. I have a pic if someone would like to see it
The wire that melts is the supply wire to the motor - It has a female paddle connector crimped on to it
I have a standard sand filter - 2 eyeballs (not sure what size - outlet or feed?)

I will get more info - especially the electrical data. My gut tells me that you guys are right on when suspecting wiring as the cause - but why did the OEM motor last so long? I've put 3 motors on in 3.5 - 4 seasons. That's why I started bringing it ALL inside for winter - used to let the pump and motor out (Always brought the SWG stuff inside)
Thanks again

 

[mas985]

So that is the correct motor for the impeller but the max load for the motor is 15 amps @ 115v and you are running it on a 15 amp circuit? Earlier you said the wire was 14g and now 12g, so which is it?

The motor is thermally protected so if it was drawing too much current it should trip off. But I would check the voltage on the terminals when it is running to see if the voltage drop to the motor is excessive.

Also, have you tried wiring the motor without the terminal lugs? Direct wire to screw? Is the wire that is melted, part of the motor or the wire coming in from the power line?

 

[hefman]

Another thing to look at... If the black wire is getting hot near the connection to the pump, it could be a poor connection. When the motor is drawing current and there is a weak connection, there will be a voltage drop that will cause the area around the connection to heat up. Also, continually running this way will further degrade the connection by adding corrosion or oxidation to the contact areas. Eventually, it will get to a runaway point that will cause smoke and some other failure or, worse, a fire. Tightness of connections for motors or other higher current loads are extremely important.

 

[JumboShrimp]

So that is the correct motor for the impeller but the max load for the motor is 15 amps @ 115v and you are running it on a 15 amp circuit? Earlier you said the wire was 14g and now 12g, so which is it?

The motor is thermally protected so if it was drawing too much current it should trip off. But I would check the voltage on the terminals when it is running to see if the voltage drop to the motor is excessive.

Also, have you tried wiring the motor without the terminal lugs? Direct wire to screw? Is the wire that is melted, part of the motor or the wire coming in from the power line?

I will double check all this - I may have 12g from the outlet to the auto pilot and 14 from the auto pilot to the motor.
The wire that cooks is the supply line - just inside the motor connected to spade terminals. I will look to see if there is a more positive way to make the connection as well as the mult-meter test of actual voltage on both ends.

Still the OEM motor lasted MANY Moons - bearings went on it. All were hooked up the exact same way

 

[scooperhsd]

Your wires would probably last longer converting to a 240V supply (that 14 GA is VERY marginal -I would be happier with 12 or 10) . Ideally - I'd be using a 240V 20 amp, if you insist on 120V - then also a 20 amp breaker with 12 ga wires at a minimum.

The big plus on using 240V is that you only pull half the amps for the same wattage, so you could get by with that 14 ga wire then.

 

[setsailsoon]

These motors are usually set up for 240v from the supplier. That's why I asked about the dial. Sounds like you're running too many amps through the motor and that can happen with low supply voltage. This can be due to too long "extension chord" or too small or both... this can get real bad if you're running the windings that are designed for 240 on 110. Hopefully that's not the case. If you rewire for 240 please get some help from somebody that knows code requirements (NEC) and has experience doing this kind of wiring. So when you get the voltages and amps measured please post...I think this will pinpoint the problem.

I hope this helps.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[setsailsoon]

Couple of additional comments. I've used Century motors for years and even though they're made in China they last for years also. Don't recall ever replacing one less than 8 years old. I'm not a pool repair person though. I just help a lot of friends plus take care of my own and in my first career I did a LOT of work on big and small pumps trouble-shooting them in industrial plants. All the ones I've installed run 240v (or more). Yours should be able to run at 110 though but must have 110v not 90v or so that you may have with the wrong wire conductor size/length. With so many replacements it's unlikely all have the same defect. That's why I'm focusing on the installation wiring... it's the only thing all the motors have in common.

Hope this helps.

Chris

 

[JumboShrimp]

You all have been a HUGE help! I'm just gonna re-wire the whole thing today using new 12g SJ cord and connections. If I can find 10g that's not too fat I'll use it instead. Its all gotta be 'quick disconnect' of some sort so I can bring it inside in winter. I cannot switch to 220V and the dial inside is set correctly for 110V. I pointed a digi thermometer at the motor yesterday and it was 150* on the case - WAY too hot in my opinion. I'll re-check that after the re-wire and I bet it drops
Thanks so much for all the input - BEST forum on the WWW here!!

 

[setsailsoon]

Jumbo,

Thanks for responding on the dial setting. I was pretty sure it wouldn't last long on the wrong setting but I've never seen that happen and I was just trying to eliminate it. Just one additional suggestion, check those voltages before you completely rewire. If they're good, rewire won't solve the problem and it's quick to check. One thing that I've learned the hard way that works well with pool equipment is always check the simple stuff first.

Helping, it's what everybody does here. I don't post too often as I often don't get the time. I've gotten way more help than I've given and I'll try to correct that as I slow down the travel since I'm finally getting down the road with semi-retirement. Good luck and keep us posted. We like to confirm one of the suggestions worked and find out what did work... helps everybody in the end.

Best regards,

Chris

 

[JumboShrimp]

Oh, I forgot to report. Checked Voltage last night. 116 at the outlet / 109 at the pump. Not a huge drop but still a drop. That's why I'm gonna start from scratch.
I'm in the same boat as you - I feel that I take WAY more than I give. I hope to be able to even that out.
Regardless - there's a bunch of REALLY generous people here and I can't thanks them enough!!

 

[RyanMcC]

I'm in the same boat as you - I feel that I take WAY more than I give. I hope to be able to even that out.

You're giving plenty.

Asking questions clearly, giving plenty of follow-up information and following through to the end lets a lot of people see what's going on and maybe learn something. Come back with information on your next (hopefully final) install and let us know how it's gone, and maybe late next summer bump it to let us know how it's lasting.

And thanks as well to all the amateur electricians (or pros who are not giving official advice) throwing info out there!

 

[JumboShrimp]

Thanks for the kind words Ryan...
Got it all re-wired with 12g SJ cable. Good, solid connections, dielectric grease, the 'works'.
At the outlet with no pump running I was at 121.1v. At the pump, with it running, I was at 114.8v. Back to the outlet WITH pump running I was at 115.8v. I'm not sure what that means electrically but those are the #'s. I wonder if the Auto Pilot SWG has a role in this - as far as current draw goes.
The motor housing is still at 150* when I shoot it with the Digi Thermometer.
I WISH I could change it over to 220v but that would require a ton of work.
Any comments? Are those acceptable #'s?
Thanks SO MUCH for the input!
JS

 

[mas985]

The heat of the motor won't change with voltage. It will run at the same temperature because the motor efficiency doesn't change with voltage drive. Also, because the motor is thermally protected, as long as the motor does not shut off, it isn't too hot. BTW, Class B insulation is good up to 266F.

Voltage drop from on/off is at the 5% limit so tolerable. I think the real issue was with the power line.

One question, is this circuit on a 20A or 15A breaker?