Information about Pentair intelli/easy touch & co

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J

jpcolin

0
Aug 1, 2016
17
Belgium
Hi,
I'm in the process of choosing the pool automation system, i want the chlorine production (salt electrolyse) te be reduced when the pool cover is closed (seems logical). Hayward has a dedicated input for this, but i did not find any information about this inthe intelli/easy touch manual. Is there any way to tell the system to reduce the production by X%when the cover is closed?
I saw on the intellitouch that there a aux inputs, but i can'tfindany information about it. Can it be used to do that?

Also it is not clear what i need fora complete installation
-Power center
-Intellichlor
-Intellph

What about intellichem and personality kit? also needed?

Thank you
 
Welcome to the forum :handwave:

It is an interesting thought reducing production when covered. I am sure someone can come up with an idea of how to do it but I will offer this. When I cover my pool my FC consumption drops by about 1ppm, so I go from 3.5ppm uncovered to 4.5 covered. Even if I stay covered for days the level never gets higher than 5ppm so I am still in the window for what my FC should be given my CYA.

As for Intellph they do work but many do not like having to deal with replacing the probe and it can require calibration. If you want to automate pH most on here use a timer based injection system. Search for Stenner you will find many results mostly around chlorine but works just as well for acid
 
Hi,

Thank you, i'm just at the beginning of the story (build is for 2018) so i might post a liitle in the future.
What you say makes sense, still in the window, but i would really make sense for an automation system to know when the pool in open/close, in use/not in use.

How often do you have to replace the probe? callibration is to be done by the use/owner right (with some reference liquids)?
You see that why i start more than 1 year before the project starts, if i go the automation route, i want i all the way, probe to measure, pump/cell to inject/produre the right amout of product.

What is your experience with intellichem+intellichlor and the ORP sensor?

Thank you
 
I did not go with a pH probe or ORP system mainly because like you I started reading this forum months before we built and what I read was somewhat negative for systems using pH probes and worse for ORP systems. I have since purchased a pH meter for general testing and usually calibrate it weekly, works great most of the time. From what I have read systems using pH probes should be calibrated monthly and the probes generally last about a year.

I have been using Stenner pumps on digital timers for both acid and chlorine injection and have found that the chlorine was simple to get dialed in took a few days to get it where I was at the level I wanted to be all the time. I would guess getting a SWG setup to a predictable range would take about the same amount of time.

The acid pump took longer to get correct to the point I stopped using it for a few months. I started again a little over a month ago (pool was 7 months old at that point) and once I got it dialed in have not had to adjust it for weeks now. I attribute my earlier problems to curing plaster or my TA was off now it seems things have settled into a predictable range .
 
EasyTouch 8 with screenlogic 2 is the best thing out there right now. You can adjust the chlorine production from the swg from your phone (in addition to controlling everything else).

The IntelliPH does not use a pH probe. It uses a simple time based duty cycle. It is a good unit for those with quick rising pH and TA levels.

The intellichem uses a pH probe and does a great job of maintaining a set ph (also from your phone) but falls very short with its ORP monitoring. This isn't a Pentair issue as all manufacturers use ORP for determining chlorine levels in these types of systems.
 
Brian,

thanks for the clarification, so if i intall the intellichem, i don't need intelliph.
I think a saw a kit with intellichem + 1 pump + 1 canister + ORP. combined with intellichlor this is what need then i guess?
 
You would not need the IPH but would purchase the intellichem that comes with an acid container. The acid container that comes with the IntelliChem is basically an intelli pH unit without the brain (since the IntelliChem has its own). The IntelliChem also uses a flow cell to make sure no acid and chlorine additions occur while the pump is not flowing a suitable amount of water in addition to housing the PH and ORP probes.

Pentair IntelliChem Chemical Controller 522621 | Pentair 522621is the setup it sounds like you are wanting (522621)

Honestly, I would hold off on buying this unit. I know in my experience, I know the downfalls of these systems and end up testing the water twice as much to make sure things aren't out of whack. There is nothing exciting about the simplistic approach but it's pretty hard to screw up a manual chemical addition to the water. Also very few understand the relationship between alkalinity and pH. if your numbers are inline, pH rise will be minimal and not require attention for several days to weeks. You may find the IntelliChem is over complicated for your needs.
 
Brian,

Thank you for your input, i took a look al your build and congrats, it looks awesome, what a job you did! I doulc not see much pictures of the technical room, with the pentair stuf... maybe you could post some detail pictures?
Are you telling me you don't use you intelliph anymore?
What about your experience of intellichlor? positive? any downsides?
What i basicly would love (maybe it's a dream) is a full automated system, just add acid and salt when the system tells me to.

Thank you
 
Thanks, I'll get some pictures for you a little later today.

The IntelliPH runs daily for me. I have it set at the maximum setting which doses a little over 2 oz of acid every hour the pump is running. I never need to adjust or change the setting because even maxed out, it does not prevent my pH from rising. I have to manually add acid about once a month. Keep in mind that my pool has a very large surface area and it experiences some pretty extreme evaporation. The fill water is high in pH and TA which makes keeping on top of the rise troublesome.

I would not be without a salt cell. If mine died, another would be on the way today. I have Pentair's largest cell (rated for 60k gallons) that I have to run 10 hours to produce the chlorine needed to replenish the daily losses. It is ridiculous that I have to run my pool pump so many hours just to make chlorine.

I have never added salt to my pool after the initial dose. The salt cells operate in a very wide range of salt levels so of all the water parameters, salt level can pretty much be disregarded add long as the salt cell is reporting an acceptable level.

There are no fully automated systems that are reliable enough to trust and there may never be. I test the water a couple times a week and have done it long enough that I can pretty much guess what the results will be. There are no surprises and the actual testing takes very little time.

There are many threads here on issues with the IntelliChem. Most people end up disabling the ORP function for chlorine sensing and use the unit to monitor and adjust pH only. Why spend the money for a system that only half of it will be used?
 

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Here you can see the EasyTouch location on the left




The IntelliPH controller is on the lower left. The other two metal boxes are low voltage transformers for the landscape lights and pool lights.


Acid canister and salt cell locations. Its not ideal to have the IPH indoors or so close to the heater but I was very limited on space do to the restrictions the building department placed on me.
 
Re: Information about Pentair intelli/easy touch & co

Brian,

thanks for the detailed reply, it's good to hear that the IC does run on itself without needing much care. Since i plan to have an automted poolcover, i will have much less evaporation, so i will hopefully not have to run the pump so much. Too bad the system can"t know when the cove ris open or closed. (hayward's system does!)
But this is automated right? i mean the IC reports knows when he has to "make" chlorine and the system runs the pump? Same for Iph?

You are breaking my dream of "trouble free pool" i really tought it was possible to have it all automated with the right sensors en dosing systems.
In the meantime i did a search on the ORP and you are right it does not seems to be a good investment.

So what is the advantage of Ichem without ORP vs Iph? is there any?

- - - Updated - - -

bdavis466 said:
Here you can see the EasyTouch location on the left




The IntelliPH controller is on the lower left. The other two metal boxes are low voltage transformers for the landscape lights and pool lights.


Acid canister and salt cell locations. Its not ideal to have the IPH indoors or so close to the heater but I was very limited on space do to the restrictions the building department placed on me.
Click to expand...

Looks good!
why is not ideal to have ph indoor? for gasses? with enought ventillation it should'nt be a problem right? do you experience odors or gases?
You have the intellitouch 8? what is the difference with the other intellitouches?

and wat is the cube left up the acid canister?
 
I think you have some lofty hopes for what the automation can do. The salt cell has no chlorine sensing ability. It runs when you schedule it to run at the percentage you set. The only current way for automation to determine chlorine levels is through ORP. A true chlorine sensor costs around $5000 and you still need a controller on top of that. There really isn't a good workaround. It's fairly easy set the cell for your average daily consumption. Surprisingly, having the pool covered doesn't have a dramatic effect on chlorine retention. With an EasyTouch (or IntelliTouch - a more customizable version of the ET) and ScreenLogic (cell phone and computer interface) you can adjust your settings as your please.

Acid has pungent fumes and causes everything in the surrounding area to rust.

The cube is a natural gas heater 400k BTU.
 
The main difference between the IPH and Intellichem is that the IPH is solely time based dosing. The IntelliChem has a pH probe, senses and reports the pH as well as automatically dosing acid to maintain a set ph value. I've heard little issues with the acid dosing portion of the IntelliChem.

The acid canister holds 4 gallons of acid. That lasts me about one month. You should consider that you will be dumping acid somewhere whether it be in the pool or in an acid container.

If it was me (and I chose to go with Pentair), I'd get the EasyTouch 8 with Intellichlor IC60 and ScreenLogic 2. Hold off on the IntelliChem and/or IPH to see what your needs will actually be.

The trouble with chemical automation is that it's been designed and formulated around traditional pool maintenance guidelines that are backed mostly on speculation, myths and commercial pool standards (that are completely opposite from residential pools). If you follow the guidelines on this site, I see no reason for chemical automation and would actually consider it a hindrance to have to maintain chemical levels in less than ideal ranges just to make probes and sensors happy.
 
Brian,

You are probalby right, i will probably start with the basic then, it's just so unbeleavable that in 2016, with still have to use paper strokes to measure the pool water status.
I would have think that a couple a sensor would habe been able to do the job.
Thank you for the clarification of these pentair products.

On the pump side the easytouch regulates the speed of the intelliflo right? from 0% to 100%
 
With Pentair's variable speed pumps the speed is determined by RPM.

On their VF models, speed is set by GPM.

The VF pumps cost more initially and without getting deep into details, basically have a bunch of features that are not necessary and end up using more electricity to run. Their VS pumps are an excellent choice especially if electrical rates are high.
 
Brian,

Thanks for your advice, VS it will be then.
I'll a look at all this and eventually come back to you.

Ps: I saw there are 3 aux inputs on the intellitouch, do you have any idea what the purpose and how they can be used/programmed?
 
The Aux circuits are assigned to the relays and act as a 120v/220v switch that the IT or ET will operate for you based on a schedule or a remote command through a cell phone or RF remote. Single or two speed pumps, lighting circuits, heaters, SWGs, etc would all get powered through aux circuits and can have valve actuators assigned to them as well.

The VS pumps communicate through a serial cable so there is no need for an aux relay. Instead these functions use Feature circuits which allow for different speeds to be programmed and actuators to be assigned as well.

Say you have a single speed pump for a water feature. The pump would get wired to a relay and assigned to the corresponding Aux circuit. A custom name can then be assigned to that circuit so everytime you hit Waterfall, the pump activates.

A feature circuit can be programmed called Pool High and a pump speed assigned to it. Say that when you want to manually ;) add chemicals, you'd hit pool high and the pump speed would ramp up to the rpm that you assigned to that feature circuit.
 

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