Liquid-chlor from pool store...Likely to have degraded?

[geoshecks]

Hi,

I bought 12.5 liquid chlor in 5gal container for 16.99 to do my baqua-chlor. conversion. That equates to a price of about 1.69/gal for store bleach. I've read on this forum that 12.5% will degrade faster than 6%. What is the likelihood that the pool store containers have been around a long time? Some of the labels look old. If so, it's probably not such a good deal. Is there anyway to tell? I get it from Namco. They used to 1/2 price their chemicals at years end to clear them out. They no longer do that. So..... it seems the liquid chlor may have an even better chance to get old.

Thanks

 

[257WbyMag]

Yes, the higher the concentration of sodium hypochlorite you have, the faster it will supposedly degrade. Even as I buy 6%, I never usually buy more than I need to get me through a couple of months. Especially since I keep it outside where the temperature fluctuates and speeds up the process. In your case though, since you are doing a baq conversion, you do new a whole lot of it all at once.

Did you ask the store how long their stock has been there? Also, where do they store it? If they keep it inside on a shelf, as opposed to their warehouse area in the back, you might be better off.

In the end, the only way to tell is to test it. There is a way to do it but duraleigh, Jason, or waterbear will have to post the link to the thread that explains how again as I cannot remember it of the top of my head.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Yes, there is a way but I can't remember either.

One way to tell is in the evening, after the sun is off the pool, add enough to reach a specific target level of FC, test 30-60 minutes after adding, and if you don't reach it, then it's possible the % strength is less than the label would indicate. (This assumes of course your water is balanced and your FC is holding, etc.)

 

[reebok]

commercial-bleach-testing-concentration-t10789.html

 

[geoshecks]

Copied from another topic.

I purchased some liquid chlor in in a 5 gallon container from the pool store. At 16.99 for 5gal., it seemed a good deal esp. for ease of handling.
After learning that the 12.5 degrades quickly, I wondered about the age of what I bought. So I did the math. Someone please correct me if you think I'm wrong.

I used new graduated syringes and a graduated beaker.
I diluted the bleach first by 5ml per 500ml=100:1
Then I did the same with that solution 100:1
Which means the original chlor is now diluted 10,000 to one.
The tf 100 showed a FC of 7.5 ppm.or .0000075%
times the origional dilution of 10,000:1 = .075 or 7.5%

So the liquid chlorine seems to be weaker than advertised. This seems to be reinforced by my test of the pool water 1 hour after adding this chlorine in the evening. I used the pool calculator to determine proper amount to raise the FC to 15ppm. I used a graduated cylinder to accurately measure the liquid chlor. My testing revealed only 11ppm.

I know this seems like overkill, but I had to satisfy my curiosity. I think the pool store most likely carries this stock over year to year.

My conclusion:
The price and convenience may seem attractive, but stick to A store that turns the inventory quickly such as Walmart, etc.

Someone please correct me if my method and calculations are wrong.

O.K. now everyone, I may have put you to sleep so, WAKE UP!

 

[sheloveswater]

I am pretty impressed with your efforts evaluating the chlorine.(but it does not always take much to impress me), and I know next to nothing regarding Chemistry, but your results seem to confirm the degradation of the chlorine. You seem very knowledgable about those issues, so I will post one of my many ?s to you.

How many ppm of chor do I need to use to perform an initial spring "shock" When the water was dark green and nasty looking. Then how many ppm's do I want for a "routine" shock? I only know these things: after adding the correct chemical from my little 4 test kit, it should match a certain indicated color and if it too low or over 3ppm something is wrong and needs to be addressed. So make it as simple as possible. After reading this and other forums I learned so many things that I need to know.

This might be a stupid question but I have had so many problems getting my pool cleared up this year. And wasted many chemicals trying (using instructions provided with the product or the pool store) I finally started reading forums. OK I understand 1 gal of bleach 6% will raise the ppm 2% per 10K gal, then after I get the chlor to x% for the green swamp, how long is this level maintained?

Are there test kits that will demo a scale of comparison over 3ppm, my little test kit only shows to 3ppm. Thanks to the contributers of the forums this year I learned about alkalinity and using baking soda to adjust. Reading the instr in the kit, I did not know what that chemical listed was or where to get it. The muratic acid, I understand, mostly. But learning about the bleach, baking soda and borax was so cool, how wonderfully convenient, and more successful than the pool store stuff. I get a chance to get a 2nd chance to try the new ideas this season.

I had just started with the bleach when my pump died, so I am w/o circulation for a few? days and want to do this right. The pump died the day after I put over 14 gal of chlorox in my 30K inground, cinderblock pool, so I did not get to see how far all that chlorine would take it. that should hae given me 28-30 ppm. I also know it will dissipate quickly, so do I keep adding chlor daily to maintain the shock level and how do I measure the correct amount to use.

Do you know how quickly chlor dissipates? Is there a formula? I know there are "factors" ie sun, temp, probably circulation. I have also read enough in the forums to realize some of this chemistry is out of my league for now. This has been a very interesting project, and unfortunate. 1st, I use a small fortune in pool store chems according to inst's-failed/ 2nd, I use the BBB method-chem is looking good, WAY lighter green H2O, vacuumed, turned pump off, cleaned pump basket, restarted/ 3rd, pump barely humming, 4 days later pumps good, but, oops/ 4th, cracked an elbow of the PVC trying to get the pipe to fit in the discharge port on the pump.....craaaaaack....not the sound you want to hear dealing with PVC plumbing. That was today, so I am down again and would like to know the complete start up procedures eliminating the mistakes, hopefully.

My Dad, trying to help, brought me some baquacil Flocculant, now that stuff sounds scary by its own instructions, so I don't plan on doing it, but my Dad keeps encouraging me to use it, I have to be able to clear this up and prove I don't need to use it then maybe I can get the receipt, take it back and get his money back or maybe not. Now who asleep? :blah: Help!

Added line breaks. JasonLion

 

[geoshecks]

Welcome sheloveswater

I am by no means an expert on the BBB method yet. I am currently converting from Baquacil (see that forum if you dare). I have learned a lot here and am looking forward to my best pool season ever. Most of your questions are est answered by one of the experts here. Be patient and they will go over your concerns.

I suggest you order one of the tf100 test kits available through this site. It allows you to measure up to 50ppm on the free chlorine. (I get no commission LOL). The kit will be well worth the $ Go to the Pool School link and you'll learn everything you need to know. As for my Liquid Chlor test, I read about it on this forum and applied the logic. These people know their stuff!

The formula for shocking will depend on the variables you mentioned and test results. That's why a good test kit is so vital. Someone will elaborate on your question I'm sure. If not, re post your plight in a new subject and some wonderful person will help you.

By the way, by this time in previous years, I would have already dumped several hundred dollars of worthless chemicals in my pool trying to get it clear. I've spent under $100 so far and my pool looks better than it has in over 10 years.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Geo is right, you need a TF100 or Taylor K2006.

You need to read Pool School, a few times, and around the third time thru it will all click and begin to make sense.

Focus on Defeating Algae, How to Shock your Pool, and the ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry. (But still read them all.)

 

[geoshecks]

By the way, Please don't let anyone talk you into switching to Baquacil, you WILL regret it not to mention how expensive it will be. Some Baquacill products for pool maintenance may be used in a chlorine pool but they are way overpriced because they make you think they are specially designed for Baquacil. Also DO NOT put any baquacil sanitizer or peroxide shock in your water! You will have to then go through the conversion process to get back to normal chlorine. The algaecide should be compatible but someone will confirm that. I don't think you really need your shock level as high as you have it. Check the pool school for more details. Also remember that it's the chlorine that does the job so take it easy on the algaecide which is meant more as a preventative.

 

[sheloveswater]

Thanks to all who submitted ways to get my questions answered. I have been reading a lot about those test kits you mentioned, everyone loves them but I have not found where the kit is detailed in what it provides. Well, I am not going to use the flocculant stuff, it even sounds disgusting, and I haven't used anything but granular shock, baking soda, bleach and about 4 cups of last years daily granular pool chemical. For 30 years I just put 1 cup of gran chlor in every evening and that kept the pool in good chemistry. I have never had to open the pool after water sat in it all winter. It has been more interesting than I thought it was going to be and ultimately it seems to be fairly easy with the right products and info. I do like the sound of the test kit, but I did not know if it had a higher reading for chlor. I am glad you answered that question. I was hoping to win one by joining the site before June 1 and have access to some really knowledgable people. What a deal that would have been. I will search more for a detailed discription of what and how the test kit works. Do people have trouble getting refills of the chemicals? So many questions/ so little time. While my pump is down I can work on clearing up my ponds, I don't UV im my filtration, because I like to allow nature to do it's thing, eventually, if only the Koi would stop breeding for awhile, kicking things up and putting lots of protein in the water, ultimately feeding the algae there too. Whew, it is always something, but toys and projects also give more positive entertainment than neg. Eventually. I will check out pool school, sounds like a good direction to go.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Thanks to all who submitted ways to get my questions answered. I have been reading a lot about those test kits you mentioned, everyone loves them but I have not found where the kit is detailed in what it provides. Well, I am not going to use the flocculant stuff, it even sounds disgusting, and I haven't used anything but granular shock, baking soda, bleach and about 4 cups of last years daily granular pool chemical. For 30 years I just put 1 cup of gran chlor in every evening and that kept the pool in good chemistry. I have never had to open the pool after water sat in it all winter. It has been more interesting than I thought it was going to be and ultimately it seems to be fairly easy with the right products and info. I do like the sound of the test kit, but I did not know if it had a higher reading for chlor. I am glad you answered that question. I was hoping to win one by joining the site before June 1 and have access to some really knowledgable people. What a deal that would have been. I will search more for a detailed discription of what and how the test kit works. Do people have trouble getting refills of the chemicals? So many questions/ so little time. While my pump is down I can work on clearing up my ponds, I don't UV im my filtration, because I like to allow nature to do it's thing, eventually, if only the Koi would stop breeding for awhile, kicking things up and putting lots of protein in the water, ultimately feeding the algae there too. Whew, it is always something, but toys and projects also give more positive entertainment than neg. Eventually. I will check out pool school, sounds like a good direction to go.

There is an article in Pool School that compares the test kits. Very easy to get refills, but a kit should last you at least 2 years. The FAS-DPD FC test included in the kits can test FC up to 50ppm.

I highly recommend the TF100, you get more reagent for certain key tests so its a better value for the money. I would order the kits online, whichever you decide, pool stores rarely carry the Taylor kit and usually people end up buying the wrong one.

 

[PaulR]

OK I understand 1 gal of bleach 6% will raise the ppm 2% per 10K gal,

1 gal of 6% in 10K gal will raise FC by 6ppm, not 2ppm.

Do you know how quickly chlor dissipates? Is there a formula?

You are best off just getting used to how your pool behaves. If you have no CYA the FC will burn off very quickly; but if you have an appropriate CYA level, exactly how much you lose per day varies with the pool and the situation. I think there was another post that was taking a poll about daily FC usage, and the answers varied from 0.5ppm on up. If it's over 2, I'd say your CYA is too low or you have something organic being killed off by the chlorine.

My Dad, trying to help, brought me some baquacil Flocculant, now that stuff sounds scary by its own instructions, so I don't plan on doing it, but my Dad keeps encouraging me to use it,

The floc probably wouldn't help that much.
--paulr

 

[dmanb2b]

shelo...now that you have joined as a lifetime TFP memeber...you actaully get a $10 discount on the tfteskits.net webisite

The TF100 will allow you to test FC, CC, TA, CYA, CH and PH

 

[sheloveswater]

Thanks to everyone that submitted advice! I checked out the pool school and now understand why one cannot just throw a single specific amount of CL in to shock level. Fortunately, I had a free H2O test from a pool co and know the CYA value. The next thing to do is buy a better kit and as everyone recommended the TF100 appears to be a good deal. Thanks to everyone here at this site and I started at pool solutions a couple of months and read that info and have learned so much and continue to learn. It is wonderful. Since I don't have a test kit that goes over 3ppm (yet) for CL I am planning on diluting the water for the test until the multiple equals the amount of CL I need to maintain for shock levels, does that sound OK for now?

 

[PaulR]

Diluting will extend the range, but the more you dilute the more uncertainty you introduce into the picture. I wouldn't dilute any more than half-and-half. Note that you need to dilute with chlorine-free water and straight tap water usually has a little chlorine in it.
--paulr