I would be very wary of a PB who upfront says the build will take longer than normal -- even on an extended timeline. We had an extremely difficult builder and I regret not going with the company I believe must have given you the initial bid (based on the specs). My PB used to work for that company, which is why my pool has similar features (such as solar recirc). Had I gone with a national company there would have been more accountability when trouble arose (if at all)
New Northeastern Pa Build
- Thread starter jimim
- Start date
thanks for that. i was very put off by this also. i lost want to tell them not to bother coming out, but i want their ideas too. i have a call into one other company who i think from what i'm reading is suppose to be a very reliable great company, but the owner is away and his girl wasn't sure if i was right out of their area. so i'm waiting on them.
i want to say the company i have been working with, who some of you could prob figure out who it is, the salmon has been awesome. just awesome. great great communication. yes there are a few design layout issues that we have been talking about here but overall i'm happy, but again he is not building my pool, but i know i will have access to him if we go with them.
i don't know why i'm nervous. i mean you read good and bad about everyone on the net. it's so hard to push aside the junk and what is actually true. what i do know is this company have done 2 extremely good friends pools. one of my best friends ands fathers pool which is way over 25 yrs old now. his dad's has had zero issues. my buddies, which i am in a lot during the summer is fine from what i can tell. he said they had a few tiles pop off here and there, but they fixed them. no leaks. so right in front of my eyes i have 2 positive reviews.
maybe it's cause i don't have multiple bids and ideas to pick from is what is making me worry.
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on a side note i talked with a guy i went to school with yesterday. his pool which i didn't realize is concrete. the company he used don't do them anymore. he said the single best thing they did was the auto cover. he said that controlling mold wit the SWG has been a non issue wit the auto cover cause the sun can't kill off the chlorine as easy as his uncles and dad's pools which also now have SWG's and are darker bottom colored. he said they always have mold issues. i get that i haven idea how they are cared for. do the auto covers control the levels very well. we are going with an irregular shape so i know i can't do an auto cover, but i figured we would still use a solar cover. will it help?
i want to say the company i have been working with, who some of you could prob figure out who it is, the salmon has been awesome. just awesome. great great communication. yes there are a few design layout issues that we have been talking about here but overall i'm happy, but again he is not building my pool, but i know i will have access to him if we go with them.
i don't know why i'm nervous. i mean you read good and bad about everyone on the net. it's so hard to push aside the junk and what is actually true. what i do know is this company have done 2 extremely good friends pools. one of my best friends ands fathers pool which is way over 25 yrs old now. his dad's has had zero issues. my buddies, which i am in a lot during the summer is fine from what i can tell. he said they had a few tiles pop off here and there, but they fixed them. no leaks. so right in front of my eyes i have 2 positive reviews.
maybe it's cause i don't have multiple bids and ideas to pick from is what is making me worry.
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on a side note i talked with a guy i went to school with yesterday. his pool which i didn't realize is concrete. the company he used don't do them anymore. he said the single best thing they did was the auto cover. he said that controlling mold wit the SWG has been a non issue wit the auto cover cause the sun can't kill off the chlorine as easy as his uncles and dad's pools which also now have SWG's and are darker bottom colored. he said they always have mold issues. i get that i haven idea how they are cared for. do the auto covers control the levels very well. we are going with an irregular shape so i know i can't do an auto cover, but i figured we would still use a solar cover. will it help?
If you have a good test kit and keep the water balanced you will not have any of the problems they have. You might be able to show the TFP way of caring for a pool and they will not have the problems any more!
Kim
Kim
If you have a good test kit and keep the water balanced you will not have any of the problems they have. You might be able to show the TFP way of caring for a pool and they will not have the problems any more!
Kim
cool thanks kim!
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OK advice needed. talked with another company today. their answer to skimmers and returns is as follow.
2 skimmer. each home run. good.
2 drains in deep end. good
2 surface returns. 1 home run.
2 low end floor returns. 1 home run.
never heard of floor returns?
comments concerns. . .
Well I have not heard of them either. Low end as in shallow end?
I have gone away from your thread to think about it. Trying to think through the pro and con of this idea. I really do not see any pros for it.
Lets talk about the returns on the wall. If they have an eyeball they can be turned and aimed as needed to get the flow of water going in a such a movement as to push anything on top of the water towards the skimmers so it is removed from the water. I don't see how returns on the floor could be of much good. I guess they could push anything on the floor to the main drain BUT since the main drain is raised slightly with a cover on it (this stops entrapment) the stuff will not be able to go into the drain.
I did find this main drain:
Aquastar 32 AV Cover Parts - INYOPools.com
I hope someone else will join in and give their thoughts on this idea.
Kim
I have gone away from your thread to think about it. Trying to think through the pro and con of this idea. I really do not see any pros for it.
Lets talk about the returns on the wall. If they have an eyeball they can be turned and aimed as needed to get the flow of water going in a such a movement as to push anything on top of the water towards the skimmers so it is removed from the water. I don't see how returns on the floor could be of much good. I guess they could push anything on the floor to the main drain BUT since the main drain is raised slightly with a cover on it (this stops entrapment) the stuff will not be able to go into the drain.
I did find this main drain:
Aquastar 32 AV Cover Parts - INYOPools.com
I hope someone else will join in and give their thoughts on this idea.
Kim
ya he said he likes them cause it helps to circulate the pool water better. kinda like the other circulation system the other company uses. difference with both is this guys uses dedicated returns that i can turn on and off and the other company uses one of the drains that i can control as a drain or a return to push the water to circulate the warm top water.
i don't know. i'm getting kinda discouraged in the fact that i don't have multiple companies to get estimates from. I'm almost going to just say screw it and go the first and main one i have been talking with for the beginning and not try and find others and take my chances.
jim
i don't know. i'm getting kinda discouraged in the fact that i don't have multiple companies to get estimates from. I'm almost going to just say screw it and go the first and main one i have been talking with for the beginning and not try and find others and take my chances.
jim
Hi guys!
Really really would like some good dialogue here.
I got a quote from a third contractor.
Plus with this is he is local! hurray! so service will be easier. he has done pool in florida for over 20 yrs i think and now is up in my area for over 10 years. he only does concrete pools. he does the dig, plumbing, coping, tile, plaster, and i think electrical. subs rebar and gunite.
Ok so. Remember 17x32 freeform pool.
1.He has 1 skimmer with 3 returns tied together. said he likes 3 returns and 1 skimmer to get the proper spin of the water to push everything to the 1 skimmer vs in 2 diff directions to 2 skimmers.
Other company 2 skimmers and 2 returns.
2. He is using a Hayward Salt generator (didn't ask model number)
Other company natura2 fusion. (I know this answer, but how is the Hayward.)
3. He is 1 light in pool. (he said as long as i don't go real dark for finish 1 is plenty. I'll add another if i really need to if you all think it is really necessary.
Other company is 2.
4. He has no dedicated cleaning line so i don't have to use skimmer.
Other company does.
5. He is using a blower for the spa jets off the filter. Says blowing air wit the water keeps pressures up.
Other company wants me to add a booster pump due to the fact the spa lines are 45 feet from pad.
6. His finish is SGM pool finish diamond bright. http://www.sgm.cc/html_Pool/Contractors/pool_spa_fountain_finishes_diamond_brite.html
Other company is ansylbrite. can't find website.
7. spa is 7' round level with pool remember. tile wall separating with spill way. 6 jets, 2 drains, 1 light. 1 level of seat right around. 9 foot bench inside pool infant of spa
both company.
ok people hit me!
jim
Really really would like some good dialogue here.
I got a quote from a third contractor.
Plus with this is he is local! hurray! so service will be easier. he has done pool in florida for over 20 yrs i think and now is up in my area for over 10 years. he only does concrete pools. he does the dig, plumbing, coping, tile, plaster, and i think electrical. subs rebar and gunite.
Ok so. Remember 17x32 freeform pool.
1.He has 1 skimmer with 3 returns tied together. said he likes 3 returns and 1 skimmer to get the proper spin of the water to push everything to the 1 skimmer vs in 2 diff directions to 2 skimmers.
Other company 2 skimmers and 2 returns.
2. He is using a Hayward Salt generator (didn't ask model number)
Other company natura2 fusion. (I know this answer, but how is the Hayward.)
3. He is 1 light in pool. (he said as long as i don't go real dark for finish 1 is plenty. I'll add another if i really need to if you all think it is really necessary.
Other company is 2.
4. He has no dedicated cleaning line so i don't have to use skimmer.
Other company does.
5. He is using a blower for the spa jets off the filter. Says blowing air wit the water keeps pressures up.
Other company wants me to add a booster pump due to the fact the spa lines are 45 feet from pad.
6. His finish is SGM pool finish diamond bright. http://www.sgm.cc/html_Pool/Contractors/pool_spa_fountain_finishes_diamond_brite.html
Other company is ansylbrite. can't find website.
7. spa is 7' round level with pool remember. tile wall separating with spill way. 6 jets, 2 drains, 1 light. 1 level of seat right around. 9 foot bench inside pool infant of spa
both company.
ok people hit me!
jim
Hi Jim!
Just caught up on your build. What a beautiful yard! I'm sure you'll make the post-construction landscape beautiful as well!
We built our pool last year (finished a few months ago). Mine is a 13.5x30 rectangle. We have 3 lights, 2 skimmers and 4 returns. I would not do any less than that. With the lights the pool is well lit. I don't see how one light would do it adequately. With the 2 skimmers and 4 returns we get great water movement. While we don't have any trees or shrubs, our neighbors do and we learned this year that all their debris falls in our pool. I couldn't imagine skimming all that junk with just one skimmer. Honestly.
We have all Hayward equipment. The jury is out on how I feel about it yet. We have been having trouble with our VSP and automation. I don't know how much of that is the builders fault and how much is the equipment.
We wish we would have had them put more jets in the spa. We have 6.
Hope this helps!
Looking forward to seeing your vision come to life!
Blessings!
Denise
Just caught up on your build. What a beautiful yard! I'm sure you'll make the post-construction landscape beautiful as well!
We built our pool last year (finished a few months ago). Mine is a 13.5x30 rectangle. We have 3 lights, 2 skimmers and 4 returns. I would not do any less than that. With the lights the pool is well lit. I don't see how one light would do it adequately. With the 2 skimmers and 4 returns we get great water movement. While we don't have any trees or shrubs, our neighbors do and we learned this year that all their debris falls in our pool. I couldn't imagine skimming all that junk with just one skimmer. Honestly.
We have all Hayward equipment. The jury is out on how I feel about it yet. We have been having trouble with our VSP and automation. I don't know how much of that is the builders fault and how much is the equipment.
We wish we would have had them put more jets in the spa. We have 6.
Hope this helps!
Looking forward to seeing your vision come to life!
Blessings!
Denise
ansylbrite is the name for the finish used by Anthony & Sylvan. AN SYL (Anthony & Sylvan). I *think* it is a private label of the plaster made by CLI or 3M -- I researched this last summer and can't recall the details except that when I saw who the manufacturer was it seemed satisfactory. I think they can also offer Pebbletec, which then would be installed by the licensed pebbletec installer (the PA based one also does pools in my area and is excellent)
"4. He has no dedicated cleaning line so i don't have to use skimmer.
Other company does."
Did you mistype? If there is not dedicated cleaning line then you have to use the skimmer OR use a robot cleaner.
Nursenini has you well covered with her post (THANKS NINI!).........she is talking real life use so that weighs a lot!
Kim
Other company does."
Did you mistype? If there is not dedicated cleaning line then you have to use the skimmer OR use a robot cleaner.
Nursenini has you well covered with her post (THANKS NINI!).........she is talking real life use so that weighs a lot!
Kim
Hi Denise.
Thanks for the response. It's amazing how all these builders have such diff views on return and skimmers. You would think there was a formula for it. certain size pool. . . this is how the layout should be. nice and easy. with building a house so many things are cut and dry. there are best practices that are followed and work. seems like with the pool there is so many views.
i'm waiting for him to call me back today to go over a few things. i have to bring up the light thing again and the skimmer/return debate.
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right i'm going to use a robot, but also manual clean. he has me using the skimmer i would assume. i didn't know if there is pros and cons on that one.
Thanks for the response. It's amazing how all these builders have such diff views on return and skimmers. You would think there was a formula for it. certain size pool. . . this is how the layout should be. nice and easy. with building a house so many things are cut and dry. there are best practices that are followed and work. seems like with the pool there is so many views.
i'm waiting for him to call me back today to go over a few things. i have to bring up the light thing again and the skimmer/return debate.
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right i'm going to use a robot, but also manual clean. he has me using the skimmer i would assume. i didn't know if there is pros and cons on that one.
"4. He has no dedicated cleaning line so i don't have to use skimmer.
Other company does."
Did you mistype? If there is not dedicated cleaning line then you have to use the skimmer OR use a robot cleaner.
Nursenini has you well covered with her post (THANKS NINI!).........she is talking real life use so that weighs a lot!
Kim
sorry i missed this. the ansylbrite is a pretty large upcharge. so it better not just be a basic plaster? is it a quartz finish at least?
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anyone have any comments on the blower for the spa vs a booster pump for the spa due to pipe distance?
Ok I got some answers from estimate #1 today re: the plaster. He said it is a quartz finish. He also said I have both a blower and the booster pump cause they think i need the booster pump.
My pad is 45' approx from the spa so the need for a booster pump.
1. what do you guys think? do i need it for that distance. I have a 2 HP variable speed jandy pump for the pool.
2. what kinda things do i need to worry about or read about re: quartz finishes and the quality across diff brands?
jim
My pad is 45' approx from the spa so the need for a booster pump.
1. what do you guys think? do i need it for that distance. I have a 2 HP variable speed jandy pump for the pool.
2. what kinda things do i need to worry about or read about re: quartz finishes and the quality across diff brands?
jim
any one for the above questions?
i have a third also:
3. for backwashing and lowering pool for winter. i didn't want to use a waste hose. so i was going to tie into my swear or gutters. pool company doesn't do that. so i assume there is a backwash/waste line coming off the pump and that is where i would tie into. this would be accomplished by using the pools bottom drains correct? but does this water actually go through the filter system so i'm actually backwashing? guess i'm confused.
thanks,
jim
i have a third also:
3. for backwashing and lowering pool for winter. i didn't want to use a waste hose. so i was going to tie into my swear or gutters. pool company doesn't do that. so i assume there is a backwash/waste line coming off the pump and that is where i would tie into. this would be accomplished by using the pools bottom drains correct? but does this water actually go through the filter system so i'm actually backwashing? guess i'm confused.
thanks,
jim
4. trying to understand my plumbing. which drain skimmer layout is correct or better? also i have no idea how the returns do out and the spa. spa and pool will be on same system but spa will have blower and booster pump. also the waste line to empty pool in winter and for backwashing. is it just 1 PCV always off the filter or are their better ways of doing this also?
Untitled by Jim, on Flickr
Untitled by Jim, on Flickr
There is a waste port that comes off the multiport valve attached to the filter. You can run plumbing from that fitting to wherever you want to, provided it follows city guidelines. Many times all that's provided with install is a collapsible waste hose that attaches to the waste port. You could hard plumb PVC to wherever you want or hire a plumber to run it for you if you're not comfortable.
When the pump is on, it pulls from the suction side, all locations, skimmer and drains. In the winter when you want to drain the pool, close the spa and skimmer valves and only pull from the main drain while the filter multiport valve is set to Waste. When in Waste mode, the water goes only from the pool, through the MPV, then out the waste line. No filtration. When backwashing and rinsing the filter, water comes out this same waste line after passing through the filter, but in the reverse direction of flow that when in Filter mode.
4. trying to understand my plumbing. which drain skimmer layout is correct or better? also i have no idea how the returns do out and the spa. spa and pool will be on same system but spa will have blower and booster pump. also the waste line to empty pool in winter and for backwashing. is it just 1 PCV always off the filter or are their better ways of doing this also?
I personally like the lower suction side layout. I think the 2 ways make it easier for controlling flow and closing in that set up.
You can do virtually whatever you want with the Waste line. Flexible waste hose, hard plumbed to a surface runoff location (if allowed), hard plumbed to a sewer line (if allowed), plumbed to sprinklers to water your yard... etc. Maybe not to water your yard with a SWG...
thanks so much for that! how stupid do i sound. there is just so much! i checked with my buddy who will be doing all my concrete and excavation work with me. he does alot of work for the town. we are good into the gutters which tie into the street drains cause that's how theywant them. i figure it makes sense to tie them in to keep things clean looking since everything is ripped up anyway. right? so main thing is making sure there are valves on everything. which there should be anyway i would assume.
tht's why i posted up the plumbing pic cause i want ot know ahead of time before i sign how things should be so it's in my contract.
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lol thanks. i was thinking the lower one made more sense. i'm going to draw it out again clean now so you can maybe look it over for fine detail then?
what about my return side. i have no idea what should be going on there. I have 8 jets on the spa with a blower and booster pump. i then have 3 returns in 1 run to the pool.
thanks!
tht's why i posted up the plumbing pic cause i want ot know ahead of time before i sign how things should be so it's in my contract.
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lol thanks. i was thinking the lower one made more sense. i'm going to draw it out again clean now so you can maybe look it over for fine detail then?
what about my return side. i have no idea what should be going on there. I have 8 jets on the spa with a blower and booster pump. i then have 3 returns in 1 run to the pool.
thanks!
I'm not overly familiar with how spas should be set up for valving, but a 3 way between the spa and pool return trunks is good, then if you want you can put 2-ways on each pool return line. 2-ways on each pool return is not really necessary but if you want to try to balance flow or try to fine tune your surface skimming with increased/decreased return flow in one area versus another, it can be helpful. Probably the most optional location for valves.
Just for conjecture sake on spa returns, I would imagine that having a valve allowing you to control flow on 2 sets of 4 returns on each side of the spa would be nice. I'm sure you could also go with 4 sets of 2 returns...
Just for conjecture sake on spa returns, I would imagine that having a valve allowing you to control flow on 2 sets of 4 returns on each side of the spa would be nice. I'm sure you could also go with 4 sets of 2 returns...
so the 3 way between the spa and the pool returns would be how i divert the heated filter water between pool vs sap being that i don't have a separate system to run both a the same time. the valve would be open for the pool and closed for spa and vise versa when other is being used?