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Thread: TA test question

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    TA test question

    Probably a dumb question, but....I have the TF100 test kit and did a TA test. At the point when the water in the vial is green and you start adding the R-009, as you add the drops, one at a time and swirl, when you are done, should the water be completely red? As I was adding more drops, I could see when I added the drop, the water would start to turn red so it looked like a swirl of red and green. I would add another drop and then there would be more swirls of red but not a solid red. So, do I keep adding drops until the water is a complete and solid red?

    Thanks!
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    yep. for me it kind of goes to a grayish color, then mostly dark red, then real red.
    like the fas-dpd test...the drops make it clear when the drop hits, but it quickly goes away with swirling. the reagent makes it do this, you just don't have enough in there to turn the color of the whole solution yet. also, I find it much easier to stir with an eyedropper (or whatever) though waterbear has said it's not the same as swirling. so far I've gotten the same results by doing either, but ymmv.
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: TA test question

    Keep adding drops and SWIRLING until one more drop causes no more color change and then don't count that last drop.

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    mickey4paws's Avatar
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    Re: TA test question

    Thanks so much for the replies, I really appreciate it. I just did the test and came back with 160 TA

    We just went through the Baquacil conversion this past week and completed a few days ago, and have been using our SWG for the past day. Salt is at 3100 ppm. I'm figuring that since we still have high chlorine, I've only put the dial at 10% for now.

    Numbers today:

    FC 9 (this is as a result of the Baquacil conversion still I think)
    CC 0.5
    PH 7.6
    CYA 60
    and according to the test I did, TA is 160. Went to pool store and they came back at 170. I don't know why it's so high

    I got some sodium bisulfate (92%). Just not sure how much to add.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    is that dry acid? can you use thepoolcalculator.com ?
    16x32 21,000 gallon in-ground exposed aggregate, 1.5hp pump, 120 sqft catridge filter, birdcage, solar panels, aquavac tigershark qc robot.

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    Re: TA test question

    Yes, it's dry acid. The pool calculator tells you how much baking soda to add to raise it. For lowering TA, it says to bring PH down to 7.0 to 7.2 and then aerate to bring PH back up. I wonder if the SWG is enough to aerate it with. Package for acid says 1.25 lbs in 10,000 gallons decreased PH by 0.2. It also says never to add more than 2 lbs per 10,000 in one treatment.

    I'm not great at math, but I think it should be around 4 pounds to add (?)
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    It would raise up quicker, and speed up the entire Lowering TA process, if you could create more bubbles, like perhaps pointing the returns up towards the surface so they make lots of bubbles. If you do a google search on this site, you'll see several threads where people have created homemade aerating devices. You can also buy fountains at the pool store that work too.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: TA test question

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey4paws
    The pool calculator tells you how much baking soda to add to raise it. For lowering TA, it says to bring PH down to 7.0 to 7.2 and then aerate to bring PH back up. I wonder if the SWG is enough to aerate it with. Package for acid says 1.25 lbs in 10,000 gallons decreased PH by 0.2. It also says never to add more than 2 lbs per 10,000 in one treatment.
    Go to the PH section of my Pool Calculator, enter your current PH in the Now column and enter 7.1 in the Target column, and it will tell you how much dry acid to use. Remember to double check the pool size, current TA and borate levels to be sure they are correct when doing PH calculations.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: TA test question

    Thanks, Jason. Duh, I"m so dumb, didn't even see the part in the PH section of the calculator. I was just looking at the TA section. I haven't used borates yet, although I want to once I get everything in balance. According to the calculator, it says to add 112 oz of dry acid (by weight) or 74 oz by volume. I am assuming this container I have which says 6 pounds is by weight.

    Thanks, Frustratedpoolmom. I did see where a person created an aeration device out of PCV materials. That was awesome! I think for now I'm going to try turning the jets upward and hope that will raise it enough. If not, I will attempt to make a homemade device.

    Another question re adding the dry acid. Unfortunately we are being bombarded with floatie pollen/seeds from the trees, which usually lasts about a week. It looks like it's snowing out! So we're using the solar cover to keep most of the stuff out of the pool, along with a skimmer basket sock. Once we add the dry acid, do you think it's okay to use the solar cover after an hour or so of circulation?

    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the help!!
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    Dry acid is not the best choice for a pool with a swg. It will build up sulfates in the water over time and that can shorten cell life. Muriatic acid is better.
    The SWG probably won't aearate enough to bring the pH up fast enough for lowering TA procedure.
    This thead might be of help:
    how-to-lower-ta-t5341.html

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    Re: TA test question

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Dry acid is not the best choice for a pool with a swg. It will build up sulfates in the water over time and that can shorten cell life. Muriatic acid is better.
    Really? I was told because we have a vinyl liner, not to use muriactic acid. What do you think?
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    IF muriatic acid is properly applied it won't hurt the liner. Just ask all the liner pool owners on here that use muriatic!

    You can predilute it in a 5 gal bucket of pool water and 'walk' it around the pool (no more than one qt. per bucket at a time or you can SLOWLY pour the acid in the return stream of the jets, provided you have good circulation. As soon as you add the acid brush the pool walls. This sets up currents that 'stirs" the water.
    The key point is that you never want to drop your pH below 7.0 whether it's with dry acid or muriatic and that you never want the unmixed acid to sit in one place (if you are using dry acid it MUST be dissolved first and then walked around the pool!)

    I bet you were told not to use muriatic by the same people that sold you the baquacil! I also bet that they only sell dry acid and not muriactic acid!

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    Re: TA test question

    Thanks, Waterbear. Argh Well, since I already bought the dry acid, do you think it would hurt to use it just this one time? Would I mix it in a big bucket first too? We only have 2 return jets.

    "I bet you were told not to use muriatic by the same people that sold you the baquacil! I also bet that they only sell dry acid and not muriactic acid!"

    Yeah

    I'm curious, but what causes the rise in TA? I hope once we get it in range it doesn't shoot back up. A week ago it was 90 and now 160.
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    Use up what you have and then switch. I would also suggest to stop listening to the pool store! They keep 'pool storing' you!

    Predissolve it in a big bucket and walk it around the pool. If you dump it in dry it will do as much, if not more, damage as muriatic

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    Re: TA test question

    Thanks, Waterbear. Just ran another test and have 130 TA and PH is 7.8. Will dilute and add the powder acid later on. I'm going to add a bit lower than the calculation and see what numbers I get. Next time I'll get the muriatic acid. Still don't understand the high level of TA
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    Check your fill water. Often that is the source of high TA. If not you must have added either baking soda (alkalinity increaser) or washing soda (pH increaser) in the past, both of which increase TA. There is no other ways your TA could have gone up. I suspect it's always been on the high side but you weren't paying much attention to water balance when using the biguanide. Pool stores tend to sell biguanide systems on their ease so they 'overlook' other water balance parameters that are still important!

    At any rate, you want to get the TA down with a SWG or you will have a lot of pH stability problems.

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    Re: TA test question

    Thanks for the reply, Waterbear. Haven't added any PH increaser recently (might have when we had the Baquacil though) and I think you're right, we probably always had high TA with the Baquacrap. Our fill water is city water but that's all I know about it. Ok, just for kicks, I pulled out my tests from last summer when we had the Baquacil. They range from 70 up to 168, with about 100 being average. I am so glad I can now test my own water and not be a slave to the pool store. I'm still very new to testing so I've been taking samples to the pool store to compare results. When I was doing the conversion they tried to sell me chlorine neutralizer saying my chlorine was too high. I tried telling them why it was high but I think it fell on deaf ears.

    Finally got the CYA up to 80 (if I did the test right) and this morning FC was at 9.5 so I have temporarily turned off the SWG. I want to get FC to about 4 or 5. Sound about right?
    IG 12' x 39' - 20k Gallons - Vinyl Lined - StaRite Cristal-Flo II 26" Sand Filter - Hayward SuperPump 1 hp - Dolphin Dynamic autocleaner - Lochinvar Energyrite gas heater - Aqua Rite SWCG T-15 - TF100 Test Kit - Skimlite Duallly 9016 pole (great pole)

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    Re: TA test question

    Sounds good
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: TA test question

    I also had high TA, so I purchased a garden soak hose and put a weight on it and dropped it into my deep end. I hooked the other end to my air compressor. This works really fast. I would raise my ph with the air, then lower with muriatic acid and continue the cycle. I would just pour it out away from the edge and in the deep end with no problems.

    However, I learned that my water supply used to fill my pool was about 130. So even though I lowered it to about 70, every time I filled the pool I would be raising my TA. Just like others have suggested, check your water supply for TA going into your pool.
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    Re: TA test question

    How did you hook up the garden hose to your compressor? Just curious.
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