Fiberstar Light Retrofit- Options and questions

[Adam.]

Hi all-

Newb, just joined... searched a bit, tidbits here and there- but thought I would put it in a new thread.

Background:

Old Fiberstars fiberoptic light- one fiber they split into two bundles, ran to two separate lenses pointed towards each end of the pool. Never had enough light- shallow end barely OK, deep end murky. About 18 years old, removed the light and fiber 4 years ago.

Has the threaded lense housing flush with the wall. Looks like 1.5" will go 8.75 inches into the hole.

I am planning on installing an LED light, actually two, into the existing 2" threaded fittings.

Questions:

1. Can the light be replace WITHOUT dropping the pool level? Cannot see draining 600 cuft of water here given water situation AND im on a well. I could build a caisson to let me create a water free volume around the lens. an 18x18x18 plywood box, sealed, foam to seal against the wall- just suck all the water out....

2. Options for 'nicheless' seem to be:

Fiberstars 5W
Jandy 9, 20 and 30W
Savi/Melody (seems like this is the Jandy, I thought I read Jandy bought them) same wattage

Any other vendors am I missing?

(Might I add the darn things seem way more expensive than they should be... )

3. There seems to be little data on brightness of any light, nor any real comparisons. Any good resources? Or real world experiences?? One vendor says "will illumonate 200 sqft of a light pool".. wow, talk about a weak spec...

4. Will a 5W be adequate? Will a 9W be adequate? or do I really need a 20W?? Or 9W in the shallow end, 20W in teh deep? If I do a 9/20 can the brghtness be adjusted to create uniform brightness? (yes, my hole is 8.75 but the spec says 9.00. I am *hoping* the 1/4 inch wont matteras there is a 1" conduit that contines in line with the initial 8.75" segment.)

Oh about 30K gallons, irregular, but 32 ft by 18ft. Shallow end is 4 ft deep, 9ft at deep end. 20ft 'disappearing edge' along shallow end. The lights are mid pool, a round planter kind of sits in a 'kidney' point, so two lens point towards opposite ends. Like \ /.. well, more like 90 degrees betweeh the legs of the V.,

Sorry for the long post and lots of Qs.

Appreciate any inputs!

Adam

 

[CaptainCannonball]

"Adequate" is a pretty subjective term We just had two of the 30w Jandy watercolor lights installed in our 15'x37' rectangle and I feel they provide plenty of light. I'm sorry I can't give you more specifics than that. I think it somewhat depends on your plaster color as well. We have the watercolor versions and some colors defiantly show brighter than others.

According to the installers, the conduit is usually flooded with water, but that may be just the ones that require service calls. The units seemed pretty robust with lots of seals. You might be able to rig some way of sending compressed air into the conduit while you install the new lights.

 

[Adam.]

Thanks for the reply...

Nice pic- What color is your pool? Is that on a blue setting??

Space wise the longest I can get is 9" max, so 20W. I guess the lumen output difference between the 20W and 30W is a secret, as the websites have no data that I could find.


I am surprised nobody can answer the drain question... (Failed or not, as soon as you unscrew to install the new LED it WILL be flooded!) Did they drain your pool down below the lights to install?

thx again

 

[CaptainCannonball]

Thanks for the reply...

Nice pic- What color is your pool? Is that on a blue setting??

Did they drain your pool down below the lights to install?

thx again

It's in my signature, but it is more of a smurf looking plaster with grayish pebbles so kind of a slate blue overall. Cobalt blue was what the color was I think.

It was a new build so the lights were installed dry.

Wonder if if you could pickup a craigslist doughboy and store your water in there during your retrofit.

Its hard to judge, but from the posts I've seen with the 9watt LEDs, they won't be bright enough. If the brightness is proportionate to the wattage, the 20's might work. If I was told that mine needed to be replaced with something that would provide 2/3 the light I would be ok with it, but your pool 50% more volume than mine.

Again, sorry it isn't much help. Good luck!

 

[Adam.]

Interesting idea on craigslist... I was thinking of paying a guy with a water truck to drive below the pool, fill it. Install the lights, then drive up the hill and dump it. Might was well use gravity as much as I can! I figure 5000 gallons. (12 inches at 600 sq ft, give or take)

Ive become convinced the 20W is the minimum...

Appreciate the help-

Happy 4th (as I sit at the pool on my ipad!)

 

[gwegan]

You have to drain. The conduit is designed to be flooded. You can try something else if you want. You may be limited to the fiberstars replacement lights without some work on the pool. Most of the other lights require the conduit to be straight for 12 to 14 inches.

You need to install a listed pool light junction box and a listed pool transformer. Run conduit from your switch / control / automation to the junction box and conduit from the Jbox to the light. Then pull the cord from the light from the pool to the junction box. 3/4 inch minimum on the conduit. Make sure its electrical conduit not Pvc for water.


This link will download a guide to pool electrical. It will show you what is required. If you have questions come back and ask in this thread or PM me.

http://www.mikeholt.com/download.phpfile=PDF/Swimming_Pools_and_Spas_2014NEC.pdf

Pentair also makes Nicheless lights. You can look at those.

 

[Adam.]

Thanks. Luckily electrical is the one thing I have down.

Im going to convert the location of the old fiberstars unit (Where the fiber was terminated) into just a junction, then place the transformer/control at the other end to the conduit that fed that unit (so use the 12g wiring to pull the low volage cable back)

I did all the electrical on the place, and have pictures, so that helps... and boy did I look young! ('96)

You said I might be limited to the fiberstars light...due to the threaded fitting, or something else? I should have close to the 9" they want for the 20W light.... but if there is a different threaded lens, that would be an issue.

If necessary I can dig down into a planter to get at the back of the conduit, core out the old fitting and extend it (looking at my pictures one of them is in soft dirt before the gunite, the other might be in the gunite a bit..hmm..) ...but again if I can get a 20W 9" in there (if the lens/thread is OK) Id rather just do that. (Would likely kill the plant that's there now.)

Thx for the help-

 

[Adam.]

Any feedback: I read the following in the Jandy warranty:

Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant product manual or quick start guide, this warranty applies only to products installed and serviced by a contractor
who is licensed and qualified in pool equipment by the jurisdiction in which the product will be installed, where such state or local requirements exists. In the
event no such state or local requirement exists, the installer and maintainer must be a professional with sufficient experience in pool equipment installation
and maintenance.

Does this mean if I do the install there is NO warranty??

 

[gwegan]

Maybe. Call Jandy customer service and ask. Point out that Pentair and Hayward's warranties are more forgiving.

 

[Silver_2000]

I dont have the part number or details but I thought for sure there were retrofut LED lights that wouild go in Fiberstars niches ..
I also have 15 year old Fiberstars lights

found link

Need help upgrading pool light from Fiber to LED.

 

[Adam.]

I dont have the part number or details but I thought for sure there were retrofut LED lights that wouild go in Fiberstars niches ..
I also have 15 year old Fiberstars lights

found link

Need help upgrading pool light from Fiber to LED.

thanks. Did see that but the Fiberstar retro fit are the little ones, only 5 or 9w. Yes they are led, but I think I need 20w led units for my color pool and size.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe. Call Jandy customer service and ask. Point out that Pentair and Hayward's warranties are more forgiving.

Called. They confirm, no warranty for ANY Jandy product that is not installed by a licensed contractor.

so play games or cross jandy (and all subsidiaries) off the list... All about price control for their dealer network.

- - - Updated - - -

 

[Silver_2000]

Well I have Fiber stars in my spa and at the shallow end of my pool and had planned to replace them with LED that would fit ...
Does this mean I have to have a larger niche made ?
I wonder how I can find out how bright a 9w led would be
Its not going to be main light for pool just additional light for shallow end and light for SPA
Assuming the 9w led puts out more light than the 15 + year old Fiberstar I guess ill be ok

 

[gwegan]

There are fiberstars led replacements. IE Fiberstars Treo LED Color Changing Light W/ 80 Cord - FPAL-C-TR - INYOPools.com

 

[Adam.]

Well I have Fiber stars in my spa and at the shallow end of my pool and had planned to replace them with LED that would fit ...
Does this mean I have to have a larger niche made ?
I wonder how I can find out how bright a 9w led would be
Its not going to be main light for pool just additional light for shallow end and light for SPA
Assuming the 9w led puts out more light than the 15 + year old Fiberstar I guess ill be ok

Welcome to my world...

First one to do it posts pictures, deal?

 

[gwegan]

We would all really appreciate commentary and pictures!!!

 

[Adam.]

In a quest for better specs, I found the following:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/literature/crystalogic-320-160-brochure.pdf

The full depth of the Hayward retrofit LED is 8.420 inches- from the inside of the face plate (that screws down onto the ring at the pool wall) to where the cable exits the rear.

(I have 8.75", so this should work.)

Will likely add two Hayward LACUS11050 untis.

Just adding info to the thread....

 

[Adam.]

An update...

Well, went with Hayward ColorLogic LACUS11050 units- two of them. These are 20W LEDs, and are SIGNIIFICANTLY briger than the old Fiberstars unit. The 9.5' deep end of the pool is fully illuminated on almost all colors except the deep reds and purples.

Fit perfectly, as mentioned above the specs say 9" but it fits in 8.5 easy.

Installed them wet- no need to drain water. (Per Hayward tech support he laughed when I asked....)

Oh, the delay in following up? .....well...

So most of my exterior the lights were on X10 controlled circuits, with 3 of the 4 down at the pool were not working. Decided to rewire with Zwave devices. Straightforward, right?

But then wanted to move some switches so they could sync up to the main house better... so new switchboxes outof plastic (zwave is impeeded by metal boxes) ... and that meant rewiring the conduit from the pool house to the switch post where the old switches and a receptacle were located... punching two conduits through a block wall...and while I was at it, drilled under a walkway to add a new conduit run to avoid having the wire to the new transformer loop 90 feet down to the pool house and back up to the new crontrol location on a post. While I was at that, put GFCIs in for the two pumps (220&230) and upgraded the lighting circuits to AFCIs.

Had to add a relay to allow a standard Zwave switch to be able to control one of the 230V30A pumps.

Dont ya love how these projects always balloon?

Spent the day wiring devices and boxes- and had to test on the pool lights after dark about an hour ago.



Pictures to follow...

PS Bought an LKCUS1100 single gang Hayward light contrroller- does not work properly- wont respond to on or off; goes thorugh changing colors but nothing output to LEDs. Spend a hour trying to troubleshoot- got some colors to output after power off resets, but no control. Total PITA. Replaced it with a regular swtich until I dance around with hayward...

 

[Adam.]

Pictures:

The conduit into which the light was installed:

End result:

Very happy

- - - Updated - - -

PS Gave up on Hayward Retail support- they never responded to my request for assistance with a DOA controller. Handled it with the retailer. Replacing with a Zwave controlled switch.

 

[gwegan]

That looks really great!!!!!

 

[Adam.]

Thanks. Check out the date on the rebar pic... 20 years ago! Digging in that 'dirt' was quite a challenge!

"Converted" the old paper prints to digital...by laying on the floor and taking a digital picture of it, then formatting, color correcting, etc in Lightroom.

Anyway, took a bunch of pictures with different pool light colors, but it is really hard to set the exposure such that it is representative of the way your eyes will experience the illumination. You can adjust any of them to show what you want. The white/blue image is probably a touch brighter than actual, but the new lights do really a fine job of illuminating the whole pool.