2 year old pump triping GFI -

[Turbosaurus]

Hayward 3/4 HP super pump. I took it apart today, no visible fault in wiring, the back end is clean and correct, but when I removed the pump I noticed a serious flaw in the housing about midway along where something (leaves, dirt, etc) had piled up, touching the bottom of the metal housing and badly corroded that area in the housing. is it possible this corrosion- which in a small part goes almost all the way through about half way along its length, could this be causing a short/fault ?

I know it could be the outlet, but code in Bronxville is difficult, so there are 3 GFI protected outlets IN LINE (redundant, I know, but they're all outside and that's what code requires...)


I respectfully ask everyone who's gonna tell me to hire an electrician to keep it to yourself, and here's why. I can replace the GFCI myself for $20 ea, the pump for $150. The electrician will charge me $200 to "inspect it" (this is NY) and tell me if its either the GFCI or the pump itself, in which case, I will still do the repair. so please "I think you should hire an electrician" is not helpful and will simply clutter up the thread, thank you. Paula

 

[pooldv]

Welcome to TFP!

 

[zea3]

Hi, welcome to TFP! You would be better off replacing the pump motor. Once the metal housing starts to corrode or rust away moisture, bugs, and dirt can get in and ruin the motor.

 

[danpik]

I really question the code requirement for three redundant GFCI's in 1 circuit. General rule is not to do that as they sometimes do not get along with one another and cause nuisance tripping. You first need to test all connection points along the circuit with a voltage meter to make sure you have power to the motor. Without doing this all you are doing is guessing at what might be wrong.

 

[gwegan]

Three GFCI is ok as long as first two are wired so they only protect the outlet and the last one protects downstream. It's not an illogical arrangement.

I suspect the pump body also. So clean the motor up and bench test it. If it works on the bench then bench test with a GFCI. If that works put it back in with a new GFCI protecting only it. But if the motor housing is crowded through I would replace.

 

[lpheaven]

Hayward 3/4 HP super pump. I took it apart today, no visible fault in wiring, the back end is clean and correct, but when I removed the pump I noticed a serious flaw in the housing about midway along where something (leaves, dirt, etc) had piled up, touching the bottom of the metal housing and badly corroded that area in the housing. is it possible this corrosion- which in a small part goes almost all the way through about half way along its length, could this be causing a short/fault ?

I know it could be the outlet, but code in Bronxville is difficult, so there are 3 GFI protected outlets IN LINE (redundant, I know, but they're all outside and that's what code requires...)


I respectfully ask everyone who's gonna tell me to hire an electrician to keep it to yourself, and here's why. I can replace the GFCI myself for $20 ea, the pump for $150. The electrician will charge me $200 to "inspect it" (this is NY) and tell me if its either the GFCI or the pump itself, in which case, I will still do the repair. so please "I think you should hire an electrician" is not helpful and will simply clutter up the thread, thank you. Paula

Your not supposed to have anything in line with that pump except a gfi breaker/timer/cutoff. If you do have an outlet in the same line as the pump, its supposed to be twistlok only and gfi protected from the breaker. That is actually the code. If there is any type of grounding issue with the pump, a little water in near the terminals, at all, the gfis are gonna trip. Having all outside gfis is fine depending if your line side direct or loading something else as well. You can replace the gfis all day and still trip em if the pump is seeing a ground anywhere else.

 

[gwegan]

Don't want to veer off to never never land here but don't confuse best practices with the code. I don't believe the code requires that the motor be the only load on the circuit or that it be GFCI protected from the breaker.

NEC 680.21 Has no requirement that the motor load be protected by its own breaker.

NEC 680.21 Does not specify whether the GFCI protection must be in the breaker or an in line receptacle. Though for 240 vac it would have to be in the breaker.

If the motor is hardwired it must be protected by a maintenance disconnect. NEC 680.12. But whether that disconnect must be only for the motor or could also control other pool related equipment is a field call by the inspector or the installing electrician.

Generally, I would have a pool subpanel with separate breakers for the pump and for the other equipment. It acts as a disconnect under the "rule of six." But that is not required by the code. If I'm wrong please tell me where.

So while you may do it that way or your local inspector wants it that way -- that's great, but not required by the code as far as I can see. This post is based on the 2014 NEC which is adopted in NJ and becomes effective in New York in October.

 

[danpik]

Three GFCI is ok as long as first two are wired so they only protect the outlet and the last one protects downstream. It's not an illogical arrangement.

When I read this,

so there are 3 GFI protected outlets IN LINE (redundant, I know, but they're all outside and that's what code requires...)

I read it as they were load to line, load to line, etc. My bad.

 

[Turbosaurus]

The house is built of granite block 22" thick, built in 1926, so getting new circuits through the basement walls to the exterior is practically impossible so hopping off the existing exterior GFI- which does have its own dedicated 20 amp breaker was the easiest way to go, and the pool filter is the only thing I have on the line, except the twice a year I plug in the hedge trimmer.

The city of Yonkers NY does have its own electrical, plumbing and building codes, neither national or NYS. The electrician did put in an traditional outlet downstream from the GFI and the inspector required him to replace it.

I'll clean up the corrosion as best I can and bench test the motor and go from there.. Thanks

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I'll also check the upstream GFIs to make sure the wiring is correct, protecting just the outlet- becasue I am sure its not. Its the GFI on the house wall that trips, (not the one at the pool filter) and shuts down.

 

[Trick]

Is not hiring an electrician how you get 3 redundant gfci's? lol , I joke, i joke...

If you have 3 black wires, 3 white wires, 3 ground wires and a gfci in a weatherproof bell box,, fed with a 20amp circuit, whats your total 'box fill'?