CYA Remover/Reducer

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J

JIMNSC

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Jun 14, 2007
28
South Carolina
Yeah, right! Ace Hardware store having pool sections sell it by the gallon, however. I questioned the guy about it and he sheepishly said it didn't do much to lower his CYA when he used it in his pool. When he walked over to another customer I read the entire jug - no where on the jug were the contents listed. Shame it's not a legitimate product since mine is 150+! :cry:
 
A couple of people have tried to look into this product but the manufacturer isn't talking and no one has been able to find a material saftey data sheet (MSDS) which would have to contain clues to what was in it. It could work the same way the CYA test works, by combining with the CYA and causing it percipitate out. I don't know of any reports of anyone trying it, partly because it is unknown and partly because of the cost.
 
The look on the clerk's face when he described it didn't do much for him told me volumes. I couldn't find the product on ACE Harware's list of pool itself either. The label name was "o-ACE-sis" and he said that as their brand but he didn't know much about it except his own lack of success. I thought the active ingredient of any chemical product was required to be listed on the front of the container.
 
O-Ace-Sis products are Ace's private label. Most of them are excellent. Ace is not the only place that sell CYA reducer. I don't know who manufacturs it but the admin on a different board I freqent said that he developed it (he has a product company) and that it is proprietary. From all I have been able to gather one gallon will supposedly lower the CYA about 20 ppm in 10k gallons of water but at about $60/gal that is very expensive to me. The pool store I work at is actually the pool department (a very LARGE pool department that sell much more than chemicals. We carry all sorts of equipemtment and even sell above ground pools. We are Zodiac, Polaris, StaRite, Hayward, and Autopilot dealers at my store, among other brands and also carry a large assortment of repair items for pumps, filters, etc. ) at an Ace and we do not stock this product nor do we recommend it. The Ace products are from a company called Water Teq but I suspect they are just a private label rebottler since many of the prducts are identical to some name brand lines I have seen (and that we carry in our store!)
 
Why do I get the suspicion that the pool store industry does NOT want a product available that would easily reduce CYA?

Deceptive ways of increasing, but not decreasing, CYA are all over the place no matter where you go (dichlor, trichlor bags/buckets/tablets).

Educated pool owners know that having elevated CYA levels simply means operating at a higher FC level.

But for the rest of the public, they're brainwashed into thinking chlorine levels above 5ppm will cause them to disintegrate. For them, shock = 5ppm. Plus, laundry stuff is made only for laundry.... and pool stuff is made only for pools :)

I highly doubt a pool store will ever advise a customer to raise FC levels to 20+ppm and beyond. Heaven forbid, the customer may not be back for a few weeks cause his pool STAYS blue.

Customers will buy "lots" of chlorine "thinking" they have enough, but when it doesn't kill all the algae or if the pool only turns blue for a day or two, they go right back to the store and say it didnt' work. Then the store will try to sell all sorts of concoctions to "fix" the problem.. in ADDITION to the chlorine jugs to add again.. which of course still isn't enough for the high CYA level.

High CYA with no availabe easy fix seems like a hush-hush profit loop.
 
I doubt that there is so active a consipracy in the pool industry. The industry is more disjoint than that. Most of the problems seem to be related to the low level of training the average pool store clerk recieves. The onle place I suspect some the industry of being intentionaly misleading is in some of the computer generated test reports of what you should add to your water. Those programs are written by people who really ought to know better.

Removing CYA from the water is tricky chemically. I very much doubt that there is a simple way to do it that has been suppresed. A simple way to remove CYA would actually be a big boon to the industry, then they get to sell you CYA and also sell you another chemical to remove the CYA, two sales instead of just one, more profit all around.
 
Lol!

You'll be ab;e to buy CYA-Up or CYA-Down.

:idea: I'm going to go look at my household chemicals and see if any of those lower CYA ;) lol

---------------:arrow:


dan
 
Concerining CYA remover I spoke to the president of the company that originally make the stuff a while back and he told me that it was a propriatary and patented secret but it was NOT melamine (the stuff we use to precipitate out CYA when we do the 'disappearing black dot' test). Last week I spoke to the president of the company that manufactures the O-ACE-SIS products and questioned him about the CYA remover. I told him that I was under the impression it had been developed by another company and that I had spoken to the president of that company about it and was told that it was not melamine. He not only knew the name of the company but also the name of the president (I didn't mention it) and he told me that it was this man's idea but they had worked on it together and that it WAS basically melamine with other ingredeints. He said there were about 6 things in it (I was able to get out of him that besides the melamine there was some type of floc or clarifier in it also). He said the stuff would lower about 20-30 ppm CYA in 10k water so it was really only useful if the CYA was not that high to begin with. He said that if the CYA was 100 ppm or higher NOT to recommend it since it would take a lot to be effective and, unless the correct amount was added there would be no detectable change. Also, he pointed out (correctly) that if the CYA was above 100 ppm that there was no way of really knowing how much above 100 ppm it is due to the limits of CYA testing and it would be possible for the CYA to actually be several hundred ppm. He said that it was really most useful if the CYA was no more than 20-30 ppm above the desired range and the proper amount was added. If the CYA is higher than that he said the best thing to do was the drain and refill.

rimshaker,
as far as a pool store ever advising a pool owner to raise his FC to 20+ ppm--I happen to do that all the time when it is warrented and I ususally recommend liquid chlorine for that (We sell 2.5 gal of 12.5% for $3.99 on a refill, cheaper than using bleach!). We WANT our customers to have blue pools that stay blue. We want them to have confidence in us and use us for all their pool/spa needs including equipment and parts. If we can't keep their pool blue we don't get their confidence in our ability.


As far as the O-ACE-SIS line goes there products are excellent values for the money and very high quality. Their Natural Clairfier (Chitosan based clarifier) is rebranded SeaKlear (he told me they buy it from them) and their cal hypo is 68% (one of the strongest on the market). Their Algecide 60 is polyquat 60.
Understand that I am not recommending the CYA remover but only telling you what I know about it based on conversations with the men who supposedly developed it. I have never tried it, nor do we normally stock it since it is actually cheaper in our area to drain and refill. In areas where water is more expensive it might or might not be a workable solution when used in the proper amount. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone with firsthand experience with the product.
 
One of the managers at the pool store said the problem with the CYA neutralizer is the formation of crystals that destroy the cartridge filters, and that can't be removed when cleaning the cartridges. I suppose that you could put some sort of pre-filter into the pump basket or skimmer to catch them first.

Amazingly, he also said that he's been telling employees not to be so quick to always push the tri-chlor tablets on everyone because of so many people having cyanuric acid problems, and to recommend liquid chlorine. Even though I drained and refilled just one year ago, my cyanuric acid is up to 60-70 ppm. When it was 120 ppm, it was hopeless to try to prevent the algae without pouring in many many gallons of liquid chlorine, resulting in an uncomfortably high chlorine level, so a drain/refill was required. However they just significantly raised the water rates due to a drought, especially on the higher usage tiers, so a drain/refill would probably cost me $500 now, versus $150 last year.

So I'm swearing off the tablets for a while until the CYA level comes down from simple evaporation and topping off during the summer.

I'm sure the pool stores would _love_ a simple to use CYA neutralizer. They could sell you the tri-chlor tablets and/or the stabilizer, then sell you the neutralizer, and continue this cycle forever. They don't make nearly as much money from the chemicals required after a drain/refill.
 

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gatorsms said:
One of the managers at the pool store said the problem with the CYA neutralizer is the formation of crystals that destroy the cartridge filters, and that can't be removed when cleaning the cartridges. I suppose that you could put some sort of pre-filter into the pump basket or skimmer to catch them first.

Amazingly, he also said that he's been telling employees not to be so quick to always push the tri-chlor tablets on everyone because of so many people having cyanuric acid problems, and to recommend liquid chlorine. Even though I drained and refilled just one year ago, my cyanuric acid is up to 60-70 ppm. When it was 120 ppm, it was hopeless to try to prevent the algae without pouring in many many gallons of liquid chlorine, resulting in an uncomfortably high chlorine level, so a drain/refill was required. However they just significantly raised the water rates due to a drought, especially on the higher usage tiers, so a drain/refill would probably cost me $500 now, versus $150 last year.

So I'm swearing off the tablets for a while until the CYA level comes down from simple evaporation and topping off during the summer.

I'm sure the pool stores would _love_ a simple to use CYA neutralizer. They could sell you the tri-chlor tablets and/or the stabilizer, then sell you the neutralizer, and continue this cycle forever. They don't make nearly as much money from the chemicals required after a drain/refill.
Click to expand...

Welcome to TFP :wave:

CYA levels won't change from evaporation. It just becomes more concentrated, and then the fresh water dilutes it back to the prior level. Now, splash-out on the other hand, and refill with fresh water...or backwashing of sand filters... that will lower the CYA level. :goodjob:
 
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