Trying to keep my pool from catching a cold -Vitamin C TFP Salute

[basod]

Bought a bottle of Vitamin C to test on my steps and it was wiping stains away so easy I decided to pour some pills in a sock and try it on my vertical sidewalls and it worked so well I kept going until the 75F water was getting to me.
I know Ascorbic acid treatments will do the job "right before your eyes" but I was trying to experiment with a way to use contact removal.

What do you think of my chimpanzee foot writing?

 

[jblizzle]

Took me a bit to find the writing, but I like it

 

[basod]

Had to get a new hose and leaf net so bounced my numbers against the pool store, the mail lady delivered my new reagents as I was leaving the house
This is after 250 1000mg AA tablets
My numbers
pH: 7.2
FC: 3
CC:0
CH: 225
TA: 100
CYA: 25-30

Pool store:
pH: 7.4
FC: 2.5
CC 0.16
CH: 196
TA:102
Copper:0
Iron:0

I grabbed two more bottles on Vitamin C(AA) for direct treatment so total dosage in the pool has been ~1.6lbs of AA
After I was done noted a white turbidity, checked water and had near no FC
pH 7.2
FC: 0.5
cc:0
CH: 225
TA: 80
CYA: 25-30

TA loss probably due to the AA. I've never seen CC in my history with this kit.
So I dosed 3/4gal 10% target 4FC
Saw .5-1 CC for ~3hrs
Things finally settled after remaining 1/4 gallon of bleach at 4FC, 0CC

Did I break up some iron/copper fixing bacteria?

 

[pooldv]

Not that I've ever heard of, but somebody has to be first. Nice work on your pool! Love the TFP! I'm guessing you don't want to leave it there though.

 

[Sidecarist]

Probably just remaining AA that the FC was breaking down. I did an AA treatment last year and the FC & CC acted much the same.

 

[basod]

Probably just remaining AA that the FC was breaking down. I did an AA treatment last year and the FC & CC acted much the same.

Yeah I had read in a couple of the threads that it consumed FC, but never saw an increase in CC numbers.

My FC was .5 when I got home from work CC 0, another gallon of 10% set me at 4.5FC with CC 0
I did notice some fine white/gray precipitate collecting in the deep end seams so vacuumed that to waste.

I'll check again after circulating for bit, water is back to near clear.

 

[basod]

An update:
Last night maintained 4.5FC

Got home from work
FC: <.5
CC: 0
pH: 7.2-7.5 (shade between)
CH: 225
TA: 80-90
CYA:30

gallon of 10% brought me to FC 5, CC 0
No stains have reappeared without sequestrant, water is crystal clear. But I possibly have a leak, I noticed I vacuumed up a piece of silicone more than likely from around the steps. Checking that against a bucket.

I'd love to do an OCLT but work schedule is not permitting this week.

 

[basod]

So today Thursday afternoon I finally have 2.5 FC 0CC upon initial afternoon testing.
~72hrs for the AA to equalize with the small amount of Vitamin C tablets I used ~1.6lbs , 3 gallons of bleach consumed.

I bumped up to 5FC.
Did some research today to see if I can test iron accurately with my Hach DR2700 analyzer and pillow pads seem fairly reasonable. Unfortunately samples need to have pH lowered drastically for longer term(shipping) analysis or I'd offer the services here for the website's benefit.

 

[Swampwoman]

Basod, 1.3 lbs is still a fair amount

Re home iron testing...lamotte changed their iron test strips to be instant...not sure they're fine enough.

But for consumer use, I suspect this meter might not be bad...thinking about getting one
Iron Checker® HC - HI721 - Hanna Instruments

Of course, at $50, it won't be near as good as yours

 

[basod]

Swampwoman Resolution to .01 ppm is pretty good for an instrument of that $ range.

I think part of the drawback to any of these tests is they fail to measure irons oxidized by sequestrants, or for that matter if they would measure FE bonded to AA.

If you do buy one, I wonder if a few drops of nitric acid would interfere with the test - that's what the Hach manual recommends for total iron sample conditioning.

From personal experience these stains appear and get extremely dark on/inside return fittings. I typically clean the eyeballs in a bit of MA
It's bit of a reverse of a phenomenon I've dealt with in the boiler industry with Flow accelerated corrosion - google it if interested

I'm thinking a velocity induced aeration onto a substrate that mimics pvc returns could be a way to capture some of the iron and allow it to return to the pool under gravity

 

[Swampwoman]

I've actually been reading little bits here and there from water and waste industries on this front. That led me to an alum floc experiment in a 5 gal bucket on my raw well water, which tests around 2 ppm iron. Took it down to .1 ppm

I'm going to do a second bucket test on pool water to see if I can get the same kinda reduction after oxidization to break down the sequestrant.

Alum isn't practical in the day-to-day, (produces too much sulphate, etc.) but an annual alum floc at the right ph and vac'd to waste might be a decent treatment for well-dwellers to get a dual reduction in high phosphates (from breakdown of constant sequestering) AND the iron that necessitates the sequester.

A rig that mimics aeration/filtration might be another handy iron mgmt strategy for those who've oxidized it by mistake or intent. 2 household 10" Pentax filter housings connected with a 5 micron then 1 micron filter seem to help filter iron out so I wonder if the velocity of a pump assists if same were used for re circulation instead of just the hose on top up.

 

[basod]

Swampwoman I've read through some of your iron battles
This is an interesting link http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/aeration-facts
They obviously sell aerator tanks and post filters, the chemistry principle is all the same. You need to aerate the water to allow oxygen to bind with the FE ions in suspension to create rust molecules that can then be filtered.

Have you ever tried running your spray hose on fine mist into a bucket of pillow fill, drill a hole in side of bucket and let water drain into pool.
I've seen some characters on youtube with pillow fill setups, but their water is obviously saturated with insoluble iron - and I have no idea why their liners aren't stained, more than likely nothing else in the pool is chemically balanced.
I have a full 7days off next week and plan on running a small test setup of side stream filtration, using a homemade venturi .
Hope this thing works - want to save folks some money on sequestrant

 

[basod]

I'm bumping this after starting to see some lines on pool steps and the liner.
I did NOT add sequestrants during any of these tests.
pH rose from7.2- ~7.5-7.6 from rain without any measurable TA loss(80-90)
FC kept in the 2.5-4.5 range.

I messed around with building a polyfill bucket including a venturi that I can't make work due to supply& back pressure restrictions -I won't get into the physics of it
Try some more tests tomorrow, but ultimately a side stream aeration venturi + series filtration should work like it does in whole home iron filter systems.