New Quote for pool kit. Am I on the right track?

[Maddaymay]

Hi,

I think I'm finally ready to go with a vinyl lined pool. I received this automatic quote after making selections online. Unfortunately, I'm not sure exactly what I need when it comes to brands, horsepower, efficiency, etc. If anyone has time and would like to make a few suggestions/critiques, I would appreciated it

Thanks!!

***It looks like I don't have stairs added and I purposely left out the heater because we are still deciding. I would also like to avoid any white coping and have brick laid up to the edge with concrete decking around that.

Options Description Price
Pool Type True-L
Pool Size 16' x 41' x 26' True L (designed up to 8' deep)
Pool Walls Steel $ 6,495.00
Pool Liner Liner (28 Mil - Savannah Sandstone) $ 295.00
Pool Bottom Pool Bottom (Standard Diving Pool 3'4" Deep Shallow End With 8' Deep End) $ 0.00
Corner Radius Corner Radius (2' Corner Radius) $ 0.00
Pool Coping Coping (Cantilever Coping For Bricks or Stone Around The Pool & Step) $ 0.00
Pool Wall Braces Brace (Adjustable A-Frame With Cantilever Deck Supports & Stakes) $ 395.00

Liner Over Steel Pool Step Steel Steps (12ft 14ft 16ft 18ft or 20ft Wide Step With 1 Bench) $ 2,495.00
Step Location Step Location (Other Location) $ 0.00

Pool Bench Pool Bench (2 Corner Bench Seats Fits 2' Radius Corners) $ 795.00

Pool Step Jet Kit Pool Step Spa Jet Kit (2 Spa Jets With Air Intake) $ 99.00

Pool Pump Pool Pumps (1.5 HP Hayward Super Pump Variable Speed) $ 490.00
Pool Filter Pool Filter (48 sq ft Hayward ProGrid DE Filter) $ 575.00

Pool Skimmer Skimmer (3 Aqua Genie Skimmers And 1 Return) $ 295.00
Salt Water Chlorination Systems Styles (Hayward Aqua Rite 40k Gallon Salt System) $ 995.00
Pool Plumbing Kit Pool Kit Plumbing Accessories (Deluxe Plumbing Kit With Timer) $ 495.00
Pool Cleaner Style (Hayward Tiger Shark) $ 749.00

Pool Light #1 Pool Light (300 WATT LIGHT 12 VOLT WITH 30' CORD AND NICHE) $ 295.00
Pool Light #2 Pool Light (300 WATT LIGHT 12 VOLT WITH 30' CORD AND NICHE) $ 295.00

Pool Handrail Pool Handrail (2 Stainless Steel Handrails) $ 195.00
Pool Ladder Pool Ladder (Stainless Steel Deep End Ladder) $ 0.00
Pool Alarm PoolEye PE22 $ 225.00
Pool Wall Padding Steel Padding (2 Rolls Padding For Walls/Floor, 4 Cans Adhesive & Tape) $ 189.00
Maintenance Kit None $ 0.00
Lift Gate Service Lift Gate Service (Customer Freight LTL Unload With Lift Gate Service) $ 35.00

Total $ 15,407.00

 

[gwegan]

Are they shipping the water seperatly?

three skimmers and one return? You need more returns.

 

[Maddaymay]

Are they shipping the water seperatly?

three skimmers and one return? You need more returns.

Thanks for the reply! and we've had enough rain, we could probably fill the pool that way

I'm totally new to this. Do we need the same amount of skimmers as returns?

 

[Isaac-1]

This is 2016 invest in LED lights, not 300 watt halogens. You can probably also ditch the pool plumbing kit with timer, the Superpump VS has a built in basic timer

 

[Maddaymay]

This is 2016 invest in LED lights, not 300 watt halogens. You can probably also ditch the pool plumbing kit with timer, the Superpump VS has a built in basic timer

Thanks! great advice There is no way I would have figured out the timer issue until it was too late.

 

[gwegan]

Three skimmers is a lot of skimmers. But you have a big L shaped pool so that makes sense. You want them located at the three locations where the wind will blow debris.

But you should have more returns. For a pool that size I would say 6 returns so you are getting some movement in the water.

 

[Maddaymay]

Three skimmers is a lot of skimmers. But you have a big L shaped pool so that makes sense. You want them located at the three locations where the wind will blow debris.

But you should have more returns. For a pool that size I would say 6 returns so you are getting some movement in the water.

Thanks for adding the part about the debris. We have a ton of trees and I wouldn't have thought about the wind direction.

 

[Isaac-1]

Also remember to place skimmers downwind from seasonal winds, so lets say in the spring the wind tends to blow from the northwest, and in the summer the wind blows from the southwest, then you would want to put skimmers in the south east and north east parts of the pool and plumb them so one can be turned off when the other is turned on.

 

[Maddaymay]

Also remember to place skimmers downwind from seasonal winds, so lets say in the spring the wind tends to blow from the northwest, and in the summer the wind blows from the southwest, then you would want to put skimmers in the south east and north east parts of the pool and plumb them so one can be turned off when the other is turned on.

Awesome info! I know that this is something that would definitely bother us if it wasn't done properly.

 

[Divin Dave]

Each aqua genie skimmer has a built in return and its about 6 inches wide. It would be 'adequate' but I agree a couple more retrns in the long and shot side of the L would be better.

Are they shipping the water seperatly?

three skimmers and one return? You need more returns.

 

[Divin Dave]

Hi Maddaymay,
I will throw in my .02

1st, a 2 ft radius is not very much. Short radii at the corners are prone to circulation deadspots and thats a breeding ground for algae. It also collects a lot of dirt. In addition to that, vinyl liners dont like tight radius. A liner in a tight radius is more prone to a tear than it is in a longer radius. They are also difficult to install in tight corners without wrinkles. A 4 ft radius (preferably bigger) would be more user friendly in the long run.

Google the Aqua Genie on Youtube so you can see how they work. Each aqua genie has a built in return about 5 inches wide.
Even though you have 3 of them, I agree with Gwegan, you should add at least 2 more returns on teh short side of the L and 3 on the long side.
Locate the extra returns on the opposite wall of the pool from where the Aqua Genies will be. (I have an aqua genie with extra returns, and Im glad I addded them).

It mentions in your plumbing kit that there is a timer. You wont need that for a VS pump. But you might be able to use it for your pool lights - depending exactly on what type of timer it is.....

Its not a requirement, but timers for the pool lights are great. Auto on and off at preset times. A timer on the lights will save you money over time, because you WILL forget to turn the light switch off and they'll stay on until you remember to turn them off. (Trust me on this -- haha!). One timer will run both lights.
The Intermatic T104R is the one you will want for the lights. Lowes has these timers for about 65.00.

Ladders/ Rails. Your list doesnt mention them, so be sure that the handrails come with anchor sockets and beauty covers. If not, add them to the list. They come in different materials, but the polymer/ plastic ones will be fine and are the least expensive. These things are imbedded into the concrete deck and the handrails installed into them. Here is a link to what they look like.
Saftron ANCH-1 Anchor Socket

you will also want a beauty cap to cover where the rails mount into the sockets. They come in stainless steel and polymer to match the type of rails you have. S.R. Smith EP-100F Round 1.90in. Stainless Steel Escutcheon

Its not mentioned and maybe intentionally, but what about the material for the bottom of the pool. You can use sand or vermiculite.
Vermiculit (a.k.a. pool crete), is a soft cement type material. And then sand is sand. If you are going to hire a pool pro to install the pool, he can probably supply vermiculite or sand.

Pool Filter - That is a HUGE pool you are looking at, I would recommend upsizing the DE filter to at least a 60 sq ft one. When it comes to filters and expecially DE and Cartridge ones, the bigger the better.

anyways, those are my thoughts.

hope this helps,

 

[Maddaymay]

Hi Maddaymay,
I will throw in my .02

1st, a 2 ft radius is not very much. Short radii at the corners are prone to circulation deadspots and thats a breeding ground for algae. It also collects a lot of dirt. In addition to that, vinyl liners dont like tight radius. A liner in a tight radius is more prone to a tear than it is in a longer radius. They are also difficult to install in tight corners without wrinkles. A 4 ft radius (preferably bigger) would be more user friendly in the long run.

Google the Aqua Genie on Youtube so you can see how they work. Each aqua genie has a built in return about 5 inches wide.
Even though you have 3 of them, I agree with Gwegan, you should add at least 2 more returns on teh short side of the L and 3 on the long side.
Locate the extra returns on the opposite wall of the pool from where the Aqua Genies will be. (I have an aqua genie with extra returns, and Im glad I addded them).

It mentions in your plumbing kit that there is a timer. You wont need that for a VS pump. But you might be able to use it for your pool lights - depending exactly on what type of timer it is.....

Its not a requirement, but timers for the pool lights are great. Auto on and off at preset times. A timer on the lights will save you money over time, because you WILL forget to turn the light switch off and they'll stay on until you remember to turn them off. (Trust me on this -- haha!). One timer will run both lights.
The Intermatic T104R is the one you will want for the lights. Lowes has these timers for about 65.00.

Ladders/ Rails. Your list doesnt mention them, so be sure that the handrails come with anchor sockets and beauty covers. If not, add them to the list. They come in different materials, but the polymer/ plastic ones will be fine and are the least expensive. These things are imbedded into the concrete deck and the handrails installed into them. Here is a link to what they look like.
Saftron ANCH-1 Anchor Socket

you will also want a beauty cap to cover where the rails mount into the sockets. They come in stainless steel and polymer to match the type of rails you have. S.R. Smith EP-100F Round 1.90in. Stainless Steel Escutcheon

Its not mentioned and maybe intentionally, but what about the material for the bottom of the pool. You can use sand or vermiculite.
Vermiculit (a.k.a. pool crete), is a soft cement type material. And then sand is sand. If you are going to hire a pool pro to install the pool, he can probably supply vermiculite or sand.

Pool Filter - That is a HUGE pool you are looking at, I would recommend upsizing the DE filter to at least a 60 sq ft one. When it comes to filters and expecially DE and Cartridge ones, the bigger the better.

anyways, those are my thoughts.

hope this helps,

Wow! Thanks for all the great info Divin Dave. I emailed the salesmen to make the changes. It will be so much better to have the proper filter, etc. I really hate to 2nd guess our projects and the husband wouldn't be happy if the equipment couldn't keep up.

We are doing everything except for the electrical, so I would imagine that we will use vermiculite, even though I've never seen it at our supply stores We might have to special order it. The ladder and rails were standard and I will check to make sure they have the covers when the salesmen confirms my changes.

I'm very excited to start digging! Hopefully it doesn't take a long time for them to begin shipping parts. We are supposed to have great weather here for the next few weeks, so I don't want to wait too long. July can be very hot in Iowa!

 

[Isaac-1]

Let me take a giant step back here, to the point of pool design. There are many of us around here that advocate for a deeper shallow end, I know I wish mine were deeper (my pool is a traditional 20x30 hopper end vinyl pool built in 1980), I have went so far as to seriously consider having the shallow end dug out deeper (or at least part of it to be dug deeper) the next time it is time for a new liner. Now if you have multiple small and very small children under the age of about 8-9 there may be a point in it, however children do grow, so even if you have kids in the upper part of that age range you might consider going with a deeper design. The problem with a 34 inch water depth shallow end is it is only a kids standing depth limitation for 2-3 years. If you consult a common US child growth chart you will find that the typical (50 percentile) boy reaches a height of 42 inches around the age of 5, anything much under this height and they will find it difficult stand up in a 34 inch shallow end and have their mouth out of the water. Extending this same logic for a 38 inch deep pool moves the age up to 6.5 for 46 inches tall, extending this to a 42 inch deep shallow end which would likely be more comfortable for many adults, we get a standing height of about 50 inches for kids, which the 50 percentile boy reaches by just before age 8. For girls numbers are nearly identical in this age range with boys on average reaching the heights in the later years just a month or two before the girls do. So what we see is that a 34 inch shallow end provides no real benefit to average kids under the age of about 5 as it will still be too deep for them to stand, and moving the shallow end depth to 38 inches, only pushes back this standing age for younger kids by about 18 months to age 6.5, and even a 42 inch shallow end would only push this standing depth back to just short of age 8. At first glance that additional 1.5 - 3 years of not being able to touch bottom may seem like a BIG DEAL. However let me point out that most kids that are raised around a pool from a young age have spent years being proficient swimmers often from the age of 3 or 4 and never knew what it was like to be able to stand up in the shallow end, and most kids that may be over visiting under about the age of 9-10 that don't have daily access to a pool will be forced to wear those floaty water wing things on their arms by their parents and would not be able to touch bottom in a 34 inch shallow end anyway.

 

[Divin Dave]

you will have to special order the vermiculite. A.K.A. pool crete. google Pool crete and you'll find it.

Good luck on your pool build. It will be a challenge, but wil be worth it at the end.

 

[Kmaz]

Wow.... When you do something .. You go big!!! Like someone else said ditch plumbing kit... Get as needed local. huge fan of aqua genie skimmers but I'd forego them in your pool, it's so big. Aqua genies don't like additional returns .... Used at the same time, they require high pressure to create the current needed to be effective. at least valve them separate. Find out what most pros use for pool base local. If doing yourself, that's a huge undertaking. It been probobly 30 years or more since vermiculite has been used where I am. All use what's called pool mix or grout ordered from your local concrete company. You have a lot to think about.. Fun stuff
Kris

 

[Maddaymay]

Let me take a giant step back here, to the point of pool design. There are many of us around here that advocate for a deeper shallow end, I know I wish mine were deeper (my pool is a traditional 20x30 hopper end vinyl pool built in 1980), I have went so far as to seriously consider having the shallow end dug out deeper (or at least part of it to be dug deeper) the next time it is time for a new liner. Now if you have multiple small and very small children under the age of about 8-9 there may be a point in it, however children do grow, so even if you have kids in the upper part of that age range you might consider going with a deeper design. The problem with a 34 inch water depth shallow end is it is only a kids standing depth limitation for 2-3 years. If you consult a common US child growth chart you will find that the typical (50 percentile) boy reaches a height of 42 inches around the age of 5, anything much under this height and they will find it difficult stand up in a 34 inch shallow end and have their mouth out of the water. Extending this same logic for a 38 inch deep pool moves the age up to 6.5 for 46 inches tall, extending this to a 42 inch deep shallow end which would likely be more comfortable for many adults, we get a standing height of about 50 inches for kids, which the 50 percentile boy reaches by just before age 8. For girls numbers are nearly identical in this age range with boys on average reaching the heights in the later years just a month or two before the girls do. So what we see is that a 34 inch shallow end provides no real benefit to average kids under the age of about 5 as it will still be too deep for them to stand, and moving the shallow end depth to 38 inches, only pushes back this standing age for younger kids by about 18 months to age 6.5, and even a 42 inch shallow end would only push this standing depth back to just short of age 8. At first glance that additional 1.5 - 3 years of not being able to touch bottom may seem like a BIG DEAL. However let me point out that most kids that are raised around a pool from a young age have spent years being proficient swimmers often from the age of 3 or 4 and never knew what it was like to be able to stand up in the shallow end, and most kids that may be over visiting under about the age of 9-10 that don't have daily access to a pool will be forced to wear those floaty water wing things on their arms by their parents and would not be able to touch bottom in a 34 inch shallow end anyway.

Thanks Isaac! Those are lots of good points and when I went back and checked the pool site, I notice that we CAN do a custom bottom dig!! When we first started planning, we had both wanted to custom build our own concrete pool, mainly for strength and so we could customize the shallow end. That got to be too complex for me to think about, so we ended up choosing vinyl. Now, thanks to your prompting, I see that I can actually change things up a bit. My husband will be happy to know that too.

 

[Maddaymay]

Wow.... When you do something .. You go big!!! Like someone else said ditch plumbing kit... Get as needed local. huge fan of aqua genie skimmers but I'd forego them in your pool, it's so big. Aqua genies don't like additional returns .... Used at the same time, they require high pressure to create the current needed to be effective. at least valve them separate. Find out what most pros use for pool base local. If doing yourself, that's a huge undertaking. It been probobly 30 years or more since vermiculite has been used where I am. All use what's called pool mix or grout ordered from your local concrete company. You have a lot to think about.. Fun stuff
Kris

I've wanted a pool my entire life, so I actually even wanted to make this one bigger! My husband had to talk me down a bit I'm fortunate that my husband and his friend are very handy and like to materialize my plans. The three of us can come up with some fun projects when we get to brainstorming.

We don't have many inground pools around here, but Omaha does. I will call some of their stores and see what type of skimmers they use.

 

[Isaac-1]

Probably the most common skimmers out there are Hayward brand skimmers and sell for less than $75-$100 each online at sites like Amazon, you can also often find these sorts of things on ebay discounted another 30-50%, sometimes as open box deals, etc.

 

[Maddaymay]

Probably the most common skimmers out there are Hayward brand skimmers and sell for less than $75-$100 each online at sites like Amazon, you can also often find these sorts of things on ebay discounted another 30-50%, sometimes as open box deals, etc.

Thanks! Sticking with lots of Hayward products will probably easier for me to remember too And I contacted the salesman about changing some of the shallow end to 4ft. I think that will be a good compromise for my younger and older kids.