Do Raypak heaters come with flexible weatherproof gas line connectors?

[MitchRyan912]

Do Raypak heaters come with flexible weatherproof gas line connectors? Asking because our quote to get the heater hooked up to a gas line was pretty high on its own, but the plumber asked if the heater came with such a flexible fitting to hook up the gas to? He said that if it didn't, it would cost a sizable sum to order one (about half of the low figure of the install quote). I know these are usually used on appliances, but on pool heaters? I had assumed it would be hard piped in with a union for easy disconnection?

 

[ps0303]

You get a heater and that is it on all units no matter the brand. It's up to your installer to use the correct piping to connect to it and your gas supply. Flex lines should not be used on any gas pool heater. Rigid pipe is used to connect it to the gas supply.

Do you not have gas pipe run already to where the unit will sit?

 

[MitchRyan912]

No, there's no gas line, as we've never had a heater before. The utility was going to move our gas meter to the outside of the house before this rebuild project, so it works out well for us that they'll put the meter on the side of the house near our new pad, and the run would only be 10-15 feet of mostly straight pipe.

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Does it matter that we are in Wisconsin? Would the freeze potential matter on a gas pipe being exposed to the elements?

 

[rustyshakelford]

You get a heater and that is it on all units no matter the brand. It's up to your installer to use the correct piping to connect to it and your gas supply. Flex lines should not be used on any gas pool heater. Rigid pipe is used to connect it to the gas supply.

Do you not have gas pipe run already to where the unit will sit?

What's the reason to not use flexline? Our propane guy gave me the green light to make our own connection and he didn't have any problems with using it. Our run is only 6' and protected by the pool equipment and in no danger from being damaged.

Brett

 

[ps0303]

What's the reason to not use flexline? Our propane guy gave me the green light to make our own connection and he didn't have any problems with using it. Our run is only 6' and protected by the pool equipment and in no danger from being damaged.

Brett

Flex lines are for interior appliances like stoves etc plus they can diminish the flow of gas creating issues. Use rigid piping only.

What is your local code for piping in your area?

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No, there's no gas line, as we've never had a heater before. The utility was going to move our gas meter to the outside of the house before this rebuild project, so it works out well for us that they'll put the meter on the side of the house near our new pad, and the run would only be 10-15 feet of mostly straight pipe.

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Does it matter that we are in Wisconsin? Would the freeze potential matter on a gas pipe being exposed to the elements?

You can possibly use PFE pipe from the meter to the heater. It does require two risers, one at the meter and one at the heater. Maybe that is what the gas guy was talking about.

No issue with gas line being outside. Gas doesn't freeze as it is not a liquid.

 

[MitchRyan912]

What's the reason to not use flexline?

I can give you 140 reasons why. Plumber says he has to special order the part, and will charger is $140 including the shipping cost. He's an HVAC guy that just installed a new furnace & water heater for us, and we asked if he could quote the gas line for us too.

 

[rustyshakelford]

Flex lines are for interior appliances like stoves etc plus they can diminish the flow of gas creating issues. Use rigid piping only.

What is your local code for piping in your area?

According to all the specs and info I've found online, it's rated for use outside. It has uv protection and in my case will be covered from the sun. According to their own documents, if used outside it should be covered or in conduit. I'm building a lean to for all the pool equipment so mine will be covered. It's also aluminum so I don't know what the flow would be diminished. According to the jandy specs, I can run up to 25' of 1" line in my case it'll be less than 10' with sweeping 90s.

I would imagine we only have state plumbing codes. I have no idea what the local would be. Don't think there is any permits needed except for septic. It's great being able to do what we want without a bunch of beauracraric oversight. Don't think for a second that I would do anything to endanger my family though. With my occupation, I'm very safety oriented.

I can give you 140 reasons why. Plumber says he has to special order the part, and will charger is $140 including the shipping cost. He's an HVAC guy that just installed a new furnace & water heater for us, and we asked if he could quote the gas line for us too.

im sure it's going to be frowned upon but I found a company that will cut me what I need and install the fittings. 1" was $1.70 per ft and each fitting was less than $6.

Brett

 

[MitchRyan912]

You can possibly use PFE pipe from the meter to the heater. It does require two risers, one at the meter and one at the heater. Maybe that is what the gas guy was talking about.

This is what he told us:

"Depending where the pool heater is we might be able to get by with 1" instead of 1-1/4" pipe. The price would be $300.00 to $500.00 for the piping. Plus a gas weather tight flexible connector for the pool boiler that might come with the unit. If we have to order one it would be and additional $140.00 plus freight."

The gas connection on the heater itself is 3/4", so I'm not 100% sure why we are going to 1.25" for such a short run???

No issue with gas line being outside. Gas doesn't freeze as it is not a liquid.

Yeah, but this is Wisconsin were talking about. If He'll were located in this state, it could easily freeze over in January! LOL

 

[alben]

Although the actual pipe connection to the heater is only 3/4", the line coming up to the heater has to be at least 1". My Pentair heater NG piping is based on the directions that came with the heater. http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/MasterTempEng.pdf In my case I was replacing an existing heater, so only the last 5' or so of black piping had to be redone.

 

[danpik]

I am with Paul on this one. Depending on the size of the heater (BTU output) you might not even find a flex connector big enough to flow the gas needed. All heaters I work on, be them indoors or out doors are rigid piped. The only thing I use flex connectors on are Dryers and stoves due to their need to be moved on occasion.

 

[ps0303]

You folks can do what you want but several of us here on this forum are in the business and are just supplying you with what we do on a daily basis. If you don't care to follow our suggestions, that's up to you. I know up north that black pipe is used on gas line as I lived up north for over 30 years. Here in FL we use galvanized pipe per code. Gas does not freeze. If that were the case lots of folks with gas would have issues getting supply in the winter. All meters are located outside so wouldn't that freeze during the winter? Just saying.

All of the heaters on the market are setup for 3/4" connections. So if you use a line larger than that you end up reducing the line down to 3/4" at the unit.

I would suggest that maybe you get a another quote from another company and see what they say. If they say the same thing then I guess it's within your code in your state. You could also do a little research on your own and see what the codes are. Yes you might live in a place where you can do whatever you want but is it safe and what does the manufacturer request you use.

Using rigid pipe also doesn't require you to have special ends made up etc. You buy the pipe, elbows, couplers, T's etc and put it together. If they say they have to special order it, it's not the normal flex line. If they are a plumber and do gas work, wouldn't you think they would have the line/tools to do any job? You can go to Home Depot or Lowes and get pipe all day long and be done with it. Nothing special.

Again, you can do what you want but we are just providing you the information you requested and how we do this all day long.

 

[ps0303]

Although the actual pipe connection to the heater is only 3/4", the line coming up to the heater has to be at least 1". My Pentair heater NG piping is based on the directions that came with the heater. http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/MasterTempEng.pdf In my case I was replacing an existing heater, so only the last 5' or so of black piping had to be redone.

I can tell you that in many cases depending on the length, it can be as small as 3/4". I see it all the time and the unit works just fine. I know what Pentair says but in most cases it is a non issue. Also, this another reason why I don't care for a Pentair product because of their units being very picky on gas supply. I can run a Raypak 400K unit off of 30" of 3/4" line and not have a single issue. Raypak's are very forgiving units and thus another good mark in my book for them.

 

[Geebot]

Does it matter that we are in Wisconsin? Would the freeze potential matter on a gas pipe being exposed to the elements?

Nope. I'm in Chicago, fairly close to you. Our gas pool heater has a gas pipe "exposed to the elements." Our neighbor has a whole-house NG generator installed exactly the same way. Pretty standard regardless of the climate.

 

[MitchRyan912]

I would suggest that maybe you get a another quote from another company and see what they say. If they say the same thing then I guess it's within your code in your state. You could also do a little research on your own and see what the codes are. Yes you might live in a place where you can do whatever you want but is it safe and what does the manufacturer request you use.

I think I'll be doing this. The problem is that the meter is currently on the inside of the house and we don't have the heater set. An estimator would have to be really good at imagining what needs to be done. The utility company is hoping to get it moved by the 13th.

Using rigid pipe also doesn't require you to have special ends made up etc. You buy the pipe, elbows, couplers, T's etc and put it together. If they say they have to special order it, it's not the normal flex line. If they are a plumber and do gas work, wouldn't you think they would have the line/tools to do any job? You can go to Home Depot or Lowes and get pipe all day long and be done with it. Nothing special.

Right, but I can't imagine why they are saying they need something special, unless they're trying to sell us a $10 part for $140 and make some extra profit. The way the estimator was describing it when he came to quote it, I had expected a $100-200 quote, not $300-500 PLUS an additional part. The same HVAC contractor just put in a new furnace and (in a new location) a new water heater, and had by far the best quote on the job.

Again, you can do what you want but we are just providing you the information you requested and how we do this all day long.

Thanks for the help!

 

[alben]

OP: Since you are in WI you will find that Menard's carries everything you need. They have the threaded black pipe in many different lengths, nipples, couplers, elbows, tees, valves, pipe dope, etc.

The pool heaters I have seen here in MN have always been hard piped. The NG meter and piping is all exposed to the elements. Gas does not freeze.

Make sure the pipe is supported along the way.

Pretty much the only tools you need are a pair of pipe wrenches. Be sure to do the soap test for leaks.

Read up on the subject. Study the codes. Get a professional to do the work, or at the very least, to look over your work.

 

[MitchRyan912]

I'm not comfortable with running gas pipe, even though I'm sure I could it (I know how to cut, thread, and bend rigid aluminum electrical conduit, which is similar except for the bending part). We are also on a land contract, so an inspector will be looking things over in 2.5 years when we actually purchase the house. Us and the seller want to make sure it's done to code and done well.

 

[flyweed]

I live in Wisconsin. My father in law who works for Wisconsin Fuel and Light....says BIG NO on gas flex line. Flex line is often confused for (CSST) or corrugated Stainless Steel tubing, which has been used since 1990 to connect INTERIOR appliances to a gas line. It should NOT be used outside.
Danger: Improperly bonded and grounded CSST can result in natural gas leaks or fires in buildings struck by lightning. Learn about our CSST policy requirements. CSST is often coated in yellow or black.

Do not confuse CSST with natural gas appliance flexible connectors. Flexible connectors typically attach directly to natural gas appliances from a floor or wall appliance shut-off valve. CSST is typically routed beneath, through or along side floor joists in the basement, inside interior wall cavities and on top of ceiling joists in attic spaces.

In Wisconsin, all CSST, regardless of manufacturer exemptions, must be bonded and grounded. First generation CSST must be bonded to the structure’s electrical system in accordance with NFPA 70 - National Electrical Code (NEC), and NFPA 54 - National Fuel Gas Code, using bonding clamp(s) and wire sized appropriately per the manufacturer’s instructions.

That's my two cents...and I"D NEVER use "flex line" on anything. Just play it safe and use black steel gas pipe. and connectors.

 

[MitchRyan912]

I live in Wisconsin. My father in law who works for Wisconsin Fuel and Light....says BIG NO on gas flex line. Flex line is often confused for (CSST) or corrugated Stainless Steel tubing, which has been used since 1990 to connect INTERIOR appliances to a gas line. It should NOT be used outside.
Danger: Improperly bonded and grounded CSST can result in natural gas leaks or fires in buildings struck by lightning. Learn about our CSST policy requirements. CSST is often coated in yellow or black.

We had a guy install some of that yellow flex gas pipe to a new kitchen cooktop a couple years ago. It wasn't until we upgraded our electrical panel that we discovered it wasn't bonded properly. Thankfully it was a trivial matter to reuse a conduit that went from the old panel to bond to the water main. Pulled 60' of #6 to bond the panel to the output side of the meter to satisfy the electrical inspector.

That's my two cents...and I"D NEVER use "flex line" on anything. Just play it safe and use black steel gas pipe. and connectors.

I called for another quote, and they said it was going to cost significantly more to do the job, but that there was no question of doing it in hard pipe all the way.

Waiting to hear back from the HVAC guy about doing it all in hard pipe.

 

[MitchRyan912]

The guy said that it MUST be connected with a flexible connection, due to the ground freezing in the winter time, causing the pad to heave, which would potentially cause hard pipe to break. His theory makes sense, but why wouldn't this be more common?

That said, wouldn't the pad heaving also cause problems with the other plumbing for the pool???

 

[ps0303]

I'm thinking many of us are thinking of the flexible line used for stoves/dryers and what your folks up there are talking about is totally different.