Pentair VS Pump - How to Protect Heater and Booster Pump?

[faby3003]

I am planning to upgrade to a Pentair VS pump (most likely SuperFlo). I want to ensure that my booster pump or heater are not on when the pump is turned off. I would like some extra safety over the heater's pressure switch.

Currently, I have a T104 Intermatic mechanical timer with a fireman's switch hooked up to the heater. My booster pump is wired so that if there is no power going to the main pump, then the booster pump won't turn on.

Questions I have:
1) What sort of flow rate does my 266k Btu Rheem Digital heater require? Is this higher than I'd normally want to operate my pump (i.e. do I want to automate the pump to run at a higher flow rate when the heater is on?)
2) How important is it for my heater to shutoff ~10 minutes prior to my pump?
3) What method would you recommend to safeguard the booster pump and heater (automation system, relays, keep current set-up with mechanical timer)?
4) Are there some low cost automation systems that will work with the Pentair SuperFlo VS?

Thanks!

 

[cowboycasey]

2. very important
3. automation is the best route
4. about the lowest cost solution I found is the PE 653 from intermatic, it has worked great for me and they are awesome if something comes up... it will do VS pumps and heaters up to 5 things total
Intermatic PE653RC Wireless Control System for Variable Speed and Two-Speed Pumps - Sump Pump Accessories - Amazon.com

 

[CJadamec]

It sounds like you already have things wired to work correctly with a timer set up. With the new pump you can go with a whole new automation as casey suggested or you can basically leave your current wiring as is and set the timer on the pump to come on and go off before and after the current timer you have. The pump would be wired to its own dedicated breaker separate from your current timer wiring. For your heater it is very important for the pump to run after it shuts down so that the residual heat is taken out of the heat exchanger. The superflo pump has the ability to accept relay input from automation systems.

As a side note if you are going to add the VS pump it is best to add a surge protector to your wiring to protect the drive electronics.

 

[faby3003]

So, with my current set-up, my booster pump does not run unless there is power being supplied to the main pump. If I switch to a VS pump and give it continuous power, then there would be nothing to prevent my booster pump from running when my main pump is off.

I supposed I could add a second mechanical timer to my system - one for the heater and one for the booster pump. This would be cheaper than an automation system.

One more question - is there a benefit to automating my pump to run at higher speed when the heater is on? That could be an argument for an automation system.

 

[CJadamec]

Where does the wire from the booster pump connect to? Is it brought back to the timer box or jumpered off of the main pump motor?
I am assuming your heater and booster pump will stay on the current timer you have and you will program the pump timer to come on before the current timer starts and shut off after the current timer ends.

You can match the different timed speeds in the pump controls to speed up when ever you want the heater to run. At a minimum to do this you would need to add 1 new timer so your booster is on one timer and heater is on a second timer.

You have most everything you need already to make your equipment work. A simple automation system might simplify some of the wiring and give you more flexibility but would certainly cost more.

 

[faby3003]

The mechanical timer for the main pump sends power to a toggle switch. This toggle switch controls the booster pump. So, for the booster pump to run, the timer for the main pump needs to be on and the toggle switch needs to be on.

Seems like the simplest thing to do is use the current mechanical timer to control the booster pump (synced with the timer on the pump), and then add a second timer for the heater.

The benefits to an automation system would be:
1) Ability to know when heater is running and run pump faster when heater is running. If I use a mechanical timer, I could have the pump run faster when there is power to the heater, but just because there is power to the heater doesn't necessarily mean the heater is heating.
2) If mechanical timers get out of sync from VS pump timer, then booster pump could be damaged. This wouldn't happen with an automation system.

 

[jmastron]

If you end up with the IntelliFlo VS, there's the Intellicomm II that provides switch inputs to the pump:
http://www.pentairpool.com/products/automation-intellicomm-ii-interface-adapter-408.htm

This would allow you to connect the booster and heater timer outputs (via additional relays) and configure the VS to come on at a given speed when those are on, overriding any other schedules. Per the manual, you can even set the VS configuration to stay on for a fixed time after the heater, for example, turns off.

I don't know if there's a similar device for the SuperFlo line -- I know when I looked last year at least one of the older SuperFlo pumps had inputs like this already on the pump, but I don't think the newer ones did.

In the end, a single automation controller (e.g. an EasyTouch) that manages the pump, heater, and booster is going to be the most elegant solution, but may be more costly than piecing together existing/new timers and interfaces.

 

[CJadamec]

the superflo accepts relay inputs via a special cable which is an optional part you can buy. So any automation system with programmable relays will control the pump.

 

[faby3003]

Can you recommend an easy/inexpensive automation system for the Superflo VS?

From what I understand, the Intermatic PE 653 would not work to control the speed of the SuperFlo VS. I belive the PE 653 just controls power on/off to the pump, but would not send a low voltage signal to the SuperFlo. I think the PE653 will work with an IntelliFlo, but not a SuperFlo.

Maybe I am overthinking this, but I feel like it would be nice to run the SuperFlo around 1000 rpm the majority of the time. My heater requires 25gpm minimum flowrate, so at 1000rpm I may not get enough flow. That's where the automation would be nice.

The other option would be to get something like a SuperFlo 1hp 2-speed. With this set-up, the low speed (1750rpm) should be enough to operate my heater. I would just be missing out on the additional electric savings of running my pump at 1000rpm (vs. 1750rpm) the majority of the time.

 

[CJadamec]

The difference between 1000rpm and 1750 will likely be about 2-300 watts. The super flow doesn't need a low voltage signal it actually makes its own all you need is something to drive a relay. The pump takes up to 4 relay inputs. There are many ways to do this. As for which automation system is cheapest I'm not that familiar with what's out there. I'm new to pool equipment but have a lot of experience with industrial automation of pumps and systems.