Yellowish /greenish water

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M

merluc3

0
May 25, 2016
36
Coventry, CT
I have a 2 week old pool that has been blue for about 2 of the days it has been standing. I topped off with well water through an Ecoone filter the first day and found that we had metals. 2 rounds of metal out in the first week and 2 CuLator bags in the pump skimmer, metal readings are 0.

5 days ago, chlorine was low and pool was turning yellow. (Only for a day, it had been high all week after being shocked) Went to the poolstore, its not algae. They told mr to shock and add a ton of alkalinity. I added 1/4 of what they told me to, now alkalinity and chlorine sre high.

I thought maybe the chlorine was oxidizing some more metals in the water and I thought that Natural chemistry Metal Free would take up any staining, clear the water, it is now looking worse. Metals test at 0 at 2 different pool stores. My skimmer is starting to discolor. Pool store gave me a little bit of Sparkle Conquest to test on it. It did seem to clear staining on the skimmer.

Is this metal dropping out and attaching to the pool? Water has some clarity issues as well. I bought cellulose for the filter to boost the filter poeer. It doesnt seem to be working. Been running the filter 24 hrs a day for 3 days and its just getting worse. Pool store was stumped. Said maybe just keep filtering. I have a sand filter and it doesn't seem to be clearing a lot. I have done 2 cycles of cellulose and bee able to backwash orangey water.

Readings from today are

TC 4.5
FC 4.5
PH 7.5
TA 190
Calcium 150.


Does anyone know what a good next step is? Ideas on the table so far are the sparkle conquest, lump alum to clear up particulates (not sure if this will clump the cellulose and create an issue?), ascorbic acid stain remover, do nothing for a while
659ebf2361d8a9d12162c2067e7afb97.jpg
and pray the filter clears it up.

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Welcome to TFP!!:handwave:

Filters don't clear green pools. Green can be algae or metals.

As you have learned, all the pool store is going to do is guess, then sell you something else. So, my first suggestion is to stop going to the pool store. Each time you go their only response it to sell you something. We can teach you how to get it sparkling and keep it that was for a lot less money than the pool store.

Where did you get your testing numbers, pool store? Not much credence is given to pool store testing around here. While you would think that a "professional" would be the best, unfortunately in most cases it is quite the opposite. Between employees who blindly trust the word of chemical sales representatives and high school kids working in the pool store for the summer you end up with poor results from their testing. But, what can you do?? We base our pool care system on accurate testing and only adding what the pool needs, when it needs it. To do that you need your own accurate test kit. Order a TF100 and at least include the XL option. That will give you what you need while you are clearing the pool, and probably enough reagents for a couple of years normal use.

While you wait for it to get delivered, you have a homework assignment. Start with ABCs of Water Chemistry and Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
 
Thank you! Yes the numbers are from two different pool stores and pretty close to each other- so hoping they're right! I will do the reading. I didnt think that the filter alone would clear this up . Our water is very problematic here with the metals. We have manganese too, which had the pool almost black for a day.

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merluc3 said:
Thank you! Yes the numbers are from two different pool stores and pretty close to each other- so hoping they're right! I will do the reading. I didnt think that the filter alone would clear this up . Our water is very problematic here with the metals. We have manganese too, which had the pool almost black for a day.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
To prove algae you must conduct an Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT). If you pass this test you are fairly certain that the green is metals. Fail it and you have algae, although metals may be there also. So, you need your own test kit if you are going to follow our methods.

I'm sure one of our experts on metals will drop by soon.
 
merluc3 said:
Thank you. The tests I had done were a day apart and the chlorine was only .5 ppm different. It went up to 5 sunday am and has remained constant .

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Click to expand...
You are also missing one of the two most important numbers, stabilizer, also know as CYA. What the pool stores don't say or don't know is that to be effective, chlorine must be held as a percentage of stabilizer. Just saying your FC is 5 means nothing without knowing how high the CYA is.
 
True.... i didnt realize that wasnt on the results. The pool is new with just a few pound bottle of cya added and most other chlorine coming straight from liquid (unstabilized) shock . Last time it was tested was within low end of range

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merluc3 said:
True.... i didnt realize that wasnt on the results. The pool is new with just a few pound bottle of cya added and most other chlorine coming straight from liquid (unstabilized) shock . Last time it was tested was within low end of range

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Click to expand...
That is "pool store speak". There is no "range" for CYA. It is a straight ratio to chlorine, meaning if your CYA is X then you have to keep chlorine above Y to keep algae away. See the chart here: Pool School - Chlorine / CYA Chart
 
merluc3 said:
I was short typing my answer. Sorry, cya is actually a little low at 15.

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Click to expand...
But, you are still relying on pool store numbers. After tens of thousands of pool owners her have posted, pool store numbers are generally incorrect. The one they get wrong the most is CYA.
 

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Ok, so new pool..... one small bottle of stabilizer and no stabilized chlorine. It isn't the cya. I got it, I don't have a test kit yet. The "pool store" is all I have for today. It seems like you are assuming it is an algae bloom.

24' Round Radiant partially in ground pool. Hayward sand filter with 2 speed pump
 
You can Pool School - Perform the Overnight FC Loss Test (OCLT) to validate if there is or is not algae in the pool. But, you can't do that without an FAS/DPD chlorine test.

It does look more like metals than algae since the water is clear. Are the pool walls slimy? How much FC are you using per day? But, if you have algae then you want to take care of that first and then take care of the metals after once the FC drops and the algae is dead.

You can stuff some polyfill pillow stuffing in the skimmer and see if it will filter our some of the metal.

More on metals here, Pool School - Metals in the Water and Metal Stains
 
With accurate test results, it's possible to run an overnight loss test to determine if there's something growing in the water or if the green is something else. And since it's done at night, it doesn't even matter what the CYA level is. There is no UV to interfere. Algae is actually a whole lot easier to eradicate than metal, which is why everyone wants to rule that out first. Right now, the test results are all over the place and there's a whole lot of wheel spinning going on.

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Greetings and welcome, merluc.

I'm a fellow well-filler here and I hope this makes sense for you.

I have found that the key to controlling metals, and even successfully executing stain removal treatments, is to first get a handle on "TFP" pool care and doing your own testing with a good drop type kit, either the Taylor k2006 or the tft100, both available at TFTestkits.net. Each uses drop titration to be able to read higher FC levels, and each gives ability to read cya, which is the lynchpin in sanitation.

Here's why:
1. If you shock/slam, your metal oxidizes, can tint water. Best way to avoid ever aging to shock is to keep your FC at 7.5% of cya...see [fc/cya][/FC/cya]
2. You need to fairly accurately control your ph to the lower side, eg 7.2, so its good to be in the habit of daily quick checks
3. If you do decide to do a stain removal treatment, for it to succeed without stains coming back in a few weeks you need to read and control your water parameters on the fly.

So, with that said, I hope you first consider reading up a bit on the TFP method of pool care and related test kits.

For the immediate problem, which I will assume for the moments is metal, the following tips might be useful:

1.lower your ph to 7.2 to see if the tint improves

2. Instead of the metal sequestrant you're using, try a HEDP based product such as Metal Magic by proteam or Jacks Magic -- I suspect you may have iron tats falling out of solution as your sequestrant is wearing off. MM or Jacks pink work best with iron...jacks purple if you're SWG (salt water generator)

Note: I've had success actually lifting stains as well with Metal Magic by doing the sponge test...here's the PDF: http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf

You can also test stains to confirm they're metal by crushing up some vitamin c (ascorbic acid) and placing it on a stained area to see if it lifts. More tips in the metals link in my signature.

3. Look up or otherwise test your raw well for metals and let us know the ppm...different strategies are in order if the reading is higher than lower...eg lots of folks truck in their base water, and then pre filter additions/top ups from wells

4. With above ground pools, sometimes the filtration isn't as strong as with inground systems. I don't use this but have read lots of examples where this polishing, 1 micron filter bag attached to a return has helped filter out some types of iron in solution, plus helped with general cloudiness. If you purchase the adapter ring for the return, you can filter already tinted water...but this is also good for pre filtering: The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water.

5. There are also greensand filters such as MetalTrap that help reduce iron loading on fill...they are pricey though, and will only ever remove some of the ppm, and only at a slow rate. The higher the ppm, the less effective the filter and the more the few rate has to be slowed down.

6. In my case, I reduced/am controlling my iron loading by having a dual home softener for continual regeneration and plumbing the system to the outdoor spigot near the pool. That plus pre filtering even THAT water with a PreFresh filter gets me down to the neighborhood of .3-.5 ppm iron. Iron stains at about .3 ppm

7. Metals will often test zero once you're using sequestrant. Sequestrant wears off over time and must be maintained. Maintenance level depends on how high the metal ppms are, which is hard to know. But when sequestrant wears off fast, its a sign of a higher load ;) SO, lots of times people test zero AND have staining...which drives us all crazy.

I test my own iron and copper now using Lamotte strips, which I use only to give me a clue as to how much is coming out of solution.

Lastly, regarding floc...TFP avoids recommending floc because a) pool store reliance on floc usually just obscures a water chemistry problem b) its often unreliable and c) can have unintended consequences in filter environment.

With that said, in this case, on a new fill from well, a specifically alum floc with careful vacuum to waste to avoid filter might help reduce iron load if you have same.

But I hope you first consider dialing in your home testing just to prove to yourself and rule out organics r a need to slam, as slamming will oxidize more and will cause your sequestrant to break down.

Hope that gives you sme ideas to consider.
Cheers to clear!
 
Swampwoman said:
Greetings and welcome, merluc.

I'm a fellow well-filler here and I hope this makes sense for you.

I have found that the key to controlling metals, and even successfully executing stain removal treatments, is to first get a handle on "TFP" pool care and doing your own testing with a good drop type kit, either the Taylor k2006 or the tft100, both available at TFTestkits.net. Each uses drop titration to be able to read higher FC levels, and each gives ability to read cya, which is the lynchpin in sanitation.

Here's why:
1. If you shock/slam, your metal oxidizes, can tint water. Best way to avoid ever aging to shock is to keep your FC at 7.5% of cya...see [fc/cya][/FC/cya]
2. You need to fairly accurately control your ph to the lower side, eg 7.2, so its good to be in the habit of daily quick checks
3. If you do decide to do a stain removal treatment, for it to succeed without stains coming back in a few weeks you need to read and control your water parameters on the fly.

So, with that said, I hope you first consider reading up a bit on the TFP method of pool care and related test kits.

For the immediate problem, which I will assume for the moments is metal, the following tips might be useful:

1.lower your ph to 7.2 to see if the tint improves

2. Instead of the metal sequestrant you're using, try a HEDP based product such as Metal Magic by proteam or Jacks Magic -- I suspect you may have iron tats falling out of solution as your sequestrant is wearing off. MM or Jacks pink work best with iron...jacks purple if you're SWG (salt water generator)

Note: I've had success actually lifting stains as well with Metal Magic by doing the sponge test...here's the PDF: http://www.proteampoolcare.com/images/uploads/MetalMagicSpongeTest.pdf

You can also test stains to confirm they're metal by crushing up some vitamin c (ascorbic acid) and placing it on a stained area to see if it lifts. More tips in the metals link in my signature.

3. Look up or otherwise test your raw well for metals and let us know the ppm...different strategies are in order if the reading is higher than lower...eg lots of folks truck in their base water, and then pre filter additions/top ups from wells

4. With above ground pools, sometimes the filtration isn't as strong as with inground systems. I don't use this but have read lots of examples where this polishing, 1 micron filter bag attached to a return has helped filter out some types of iron in solution, plus helped with general cloudiness. If you purchase the adapter ring for the return, you can filter already tinted water...but this is also good for pre filtering: The Slime Bag | The Easiest Way To Maintain Crystal Clear Pool Water.

5. There are also greensand filters such as MetalTrap that help reduce iron loading on fill...they are pricey though, and will only ever remove some of the ppm, and only at a slow rate. The higher the ppm, the less effective the filter and the more the few rate has to be slowed down.

6. In my case, I reduced/am controlling my iron loading by having a dual home softener for continual regeneration and plumbing the system to the outdoor spigot near the pool. That plus pre filtering even THAT water with a PreFresh filter gets me down to the neighborhood of .3-.5 ppm iron. Iron stains at about .3 ppm

7. Metals will often test zero once you're using sequestrant. Sequestrant wears off over time and must be maintained. Maintenance level depends on how high the metal ppms are, which is hard to know. But when sequestrant wears off fast, its a sign of a higher load ;) SO, lots of times people test zero AND have staining...which drives us all crazy.

I test my own iron and copper now using Lamotte strips, which I use only to give me a clue as to how much is coming out of solution.

Lastly, regarding floc...TFP avoids recommending floc because a) pool store reliance on floc usually just obscures a water chemistry problem b) its often unreliable and c) can have unintended consequences in filter environment.

With that said, in this case, on a new fill from well, a specifically alum floc with careful vacuum to waste to avoid filter might help reduce iron load if you have same.

But I hope you first consider dialing in your home testing just to prove to yourself and rule out organics r a need to slam, as slamming will oxidize more and will cause your sequestrant to break down.

Hope that gives you sme ideas to consider.
Cheers to clear!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I'll give it a try.

24' Round Radiant partially in ground pool. Hayward sand filter with 2 speed pump
 
triptyx said:
Awesome!! Which one did you get?
Click to expand...
Taylor K-2006. Can't wait til it gets here. I think I need to lower my ph to clear up the water- the test steps I have aren't good.

It's better than it was, but still tinted and cloudy. Not sure what to do next other than that. Running the filter 24/7 .....its not clearing up. Seems worse after swimming

24' Round Radiant partially in ground pool. Hayward sand filter with 2 speed pump
 
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