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Thread: Pulling wire in conduit?

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    Pulling wire in conduit?

    My timer is wires with 220V and I need to add a 110v circuit. The conduit is 3/4 inch and has 3 12 gauge wires in it now.

    There is plenty of room to add the two 14 gauge wires I need, but how do I pull the additional wires? There is no pull cord in the conduit at this time. I could try to run my snake through it, but I"m not sure that will work. Should I just pull out all the wires, then re-pull all 5 at the same time?

    Anyone dealt with this before?

    thanks,
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    My timer is wires with 220V and I need to add a 110v circuit. The conduit is 3/4 inch and has 3 12 gauge wires in it now...no pull cord in the conduit at this time...
    Most electricians don't leave "pull cords" in conduit.
    Do you have 3-12 STFF (solid/stranded?) wires in the conduit?
    Is the conduit plastic or steel?
    How many bends (90 and 45) are there?
    Can you shut off the 240V (you would want to anyway ) and use the existing ground wire in the conduit to pull an new ground wire AND the 3 new 12 GA wires (4 wires total) to the new location?
    -That way you could put in a 20A receptacle circuit and all wiring in the conduit will handle 20A loads.
    If you've never done anything like this PLEASE have an electrician do it.
    Triad Region of NC
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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    3 - 12 gauge solid THHN wires
    plastic 3/4" conduit
    The conduit is buried but there has to be at lease 1 45 and two 90's. It goes from the breaker panel to the wiring junction box by the equipment pad. I will be turning off the power, probably just turn off the entire sub-panel before doing any of this work.

    My plan is to add a 15A breaker to the panel, run a new common and hot for the 15a 110v circuit. I'm not opposed to running a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wires, but just thought it way over kill for my 370mA pump motor, but 15A is way overkill also

    Using the ground to pull through the new wires was something I had thought about.

    I'm kind of confused why you say pull pull 3 wires for the circuit and the new ground? Wouldn't that be two wires for the new circuit and the new ground for a total of 3 wires?

    I've no issues with the wiring portion, I've done lots of wiring before. Just nothing in conduits.

    thanks
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    3-12 gauge THHN solid wires, plastic 3/4" conduit...at lease 1 45 and two 90's...from the breaker panel to the wiring junction box by the equipment pad....plan to add a 15A breaker to the panel, run a new common and hot for the 15a 110v circuit. I'm not opposed to running a 20A circuit with 12 gauge wires, but just thought it way over kill for my 370mA pump motor, but 15A is way overkill also...
    ...pull pull 3 wires for the circuit and the new ground? Wouldn't that be two wires for the new circuit and the new ground for a total of 3 wires?
    370mA pump motor? Is this for a small fountain pump?
    If you are talking about 370mA it's not really going to matter; both 15A and 20A are overkill. Either will require Hot, Neutral, Ground wires for the new circuit PLUS the new ground to replace the one that you are pulling out.

    If I'm going to pull wires in a conduit that already has 20A circuits in it (#12 wire) I try to match what's already there. Rember that you are going to need a GFI receptacle and water-tight cover too.

    How close is this to the pool?
    Triad Region of NC
    18x37 Vinyl IG (24,000 gal.), BBB & GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 SWG, Hayward 1 HP Superpump / Hayward Sand Filter / Polaris 280 cleaner / 6 deck jets / Sheer Descent Waterfall (in coping) / Brick Red Concrete Coping / Stamped Concrete Deck
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    The pump is a very small peristaltic pump that I will be using to inject acid into the pool. I thought about just wiring it to one leg of the 220V and the ground, but that is not safe to do so figured I'd just pull a new 15A 110V circuit.

    So you are saying I should have separate grounds, one for each circuit. I guess that makes sense, I can do that. I figured they were both going from the same breaker panel to the same wiring junction box so I would just use one ground for the two circuit.

    Who knows what else I could add out there, like a light? Would be nice to have a light out there instead of using a flashlight after dark.

    The equipment pad is about 35 feet from the pool.

    I have a waterproof enclosure that I'll be wiring everything up in that I will mount on the side of the house.

    thanks
    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    The pump is a very small peristaltic pump that I will be using to inject acid into the pool. I thought about just wiring it to one leg of the 220V and the ground, but that is not safe to do so figured I'd just pull a new 15A 110V circuit.

    So you are saying I should have separate grounds, one for each circuit. I guess that makes sense, I can do that. I figured they were both going from the same breaker panel to the same wiring junction box so I would just use one ground for the two circuit.

    Who knows what else I could add out there, like a light? Would be nice to have a light out there instead of using a flashlight after dark.

    The equipment pad is about 35 feet from the pool.

    I have a waterproof enclosure that I'll be wiring everything up in that I will mount on the side of the house.

    thanks
    dave
    Dave
    When I wired up my chlorine pump, I just used one leg of a 220V pump wire, and a neutral. Since you need neutral, you can pull a 110V wire though.

    In the end, I think you would need 5 wires
    220V #1
    220V #2
    ground
    110V
    neutral

    You can tie the same ground to the 110V and 220V circuits.

    I would think you could just tie a string to one of the wires, and then pull the string through. Then, use the string to pull the new wires, but also keep pulling a new string though.

    When I was pulling wires for my HT setup, I found some "wire lubricant". I think I bought it from Home Depot, but then later bought some better stuff from the internet. Without the lubricant, I couldn't pull the wires though, but THHN wire is already slick, so you might not need it.

    Randy
    20,000 gal fiberglass pool, Raypak 266k BTU Lo Nox gas heater, Purex 2048 48 sq ft DE filter, 1.5hp pump. iWave wireless remote, Pulsafeeder chlorine pump, Safety cover on most of the time

    seperate spa, with own pump, cartridge filter, Teledyne heater

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    My father is an electrician and he did the same thing for me that Randy described. I have 220 where I had an above ground spa and he used that sub panel to add a 110 outlet in that area. I don't know the details but I do know we did not run any new wires from the main panel.
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Quote Originally Posted by randytsuch
    Who knows what else I could add out there, like a light? Would be nice to have a light out there instead of using a flashlight after dark.
    How about installing a pole lamp? The hollow aluminum poles are about $75 and the fixtures are $25 (or as much as you want to spend). You can add a receptacle and photocell for the light that mount directly on the pole for about $15 each. I installed one last year and it's nice: no switch necessary and you don't have to worry about turning the light off and on. Vary the wattage of the bulb and you vary the brightness of the area. 8)

    I'd use lubricant even with the THHN wire. It's cheap and makes the job easier .

    BTW: I'm a firm believer in separate ground wires, just joined together in the sub-panel.
    Triad Region of NC
    18x37 Vinyl IG (24,000 gal.), BBB & GoldLine AquaLogic PS4 SWG, Hayward 1 HP Superpump / Hayward Sand Filter / Polaris 280 cleaner / 6 deck jets / Sheer Descent Waterfall (in coping) / Brick Red Concrete Coping / Stamped Concrete Deck
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Just got back from HD with:

    1 15A GFCI breaker
    500 ft stranded 14 gauge thhn wire (black, I'll use color tape to mark the common, pulled the panel off the breaker box and the original wire is stranded, not solid like I thought)
    8 ft of 1/2" LQ PVC conduit with fittings
    KwikSet masonry anchors for my junction box
    poly twine to pull wires

    $~90 for it all

    I've heard you can use Dawn dishsoap as lubricant good, bad?

    Let the fun begin!

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    You don't want to use dish soap. It will work for now, but over time it will harden up like glue and you will never get anything into or out of that conduit ever again.

    You can pick up the correct kind of lubricant in the electrical department at Home Depot or Lowes inexpensively.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Second Jason's comment. Get a good synthetic wax-based wire pulling lubricant.
    If you use soap, you'll never pull wire through that conduit again.

    If you have a plastic grocery bag and a shop vac, you can get that pull cord through the conduit in short order. Cut a corner off a grocery bag, tie the cord to it, and stuff it into one end of the pipe. Fire up the shop vac on the other end, and you should get the cord through almost instantly.
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    If you'll be pulling in new wires, I'd pull out the existing wires first, then pull in all 6 wires at once. If not, the existing wires in the conduit could be a big headache.
    40 X 26 Free Form Pool with attached 9 X 7 Spa raised 18" with 8 Jets and Spillover, and an Art Rock Waterfall/Grotto with accent rocks, 26,000 gallons
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Thought I would report back.

    I pulled all the wires today with the help of my 12 year old son. I ended up pulling the ground wire out with a string attached to it. Once out I used it to measure two more new wires (hot and common) for the 110v circuit. I then pulled everything, including a new string back through the conduit. I didn't even need any of the wire lube I bought. It was very easy to do.

    Took about another 30 minutes to get everything put in place and wired up. Now I have a 110v GFCI protected circuit pulled to my equipment pad hooked to the pump relay on my AutoPilot.

    Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions I'm very pleased with the results.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    If you have three wires providing 220 in the conduit, my guess is they are red, black, and green wires. If so, you can get 120 between either the red and green or the black and green. No need to pull new wires for 110. Check it out with a simple volt/ohm meter which you can buy at any hardware store for 10 or 15 bucks.

    Robolt
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    you can get 120 between either the red and green or the black and green.
    You definitely do NOT want to do that.

    The green wire would be a ground/bonding wire, and designated specifically as NOT a current-carrying conductor for safety purposes.

    You need a neutral conductor (white) for connection as 120 volts. So if there isn't one already, you'd still need to pull a wire.

    The neutral and ground may (in theory, but often not in practice) be at the same potential, they should not be connected together except at the main feed point, and the green should NEVER be used as a current-carrying conductor.
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    You definitely do NOT want to do that.

    You need a neutral conductor (white) for connection as 120 volts. So if there isn't one already, you'd still need to pull a wire.
    +1

    Also, each circuit should have it's own ground.
    40 X 26 Free Form Pool with attached 9 X 7 Spa raised 18" with 8 Jets and Spillover, and an Art Rock Waterfall/Grotto with accent rocks, 26,000 gallons
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    I'm pretty sure that the two circuits can share a common ground, as they share a common main feed. It would need to be as large as the largest conductor in the conduit or raceway, and must bond to all metal parts.
    It's always worth consulting the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) in your specific case.
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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    You can not share a ground if you are using GFCI circuit breakers, the breakers will trip all the time if you do.
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  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    You can not share a ground if you are using GFCI circuit breakers, the breakers will trip all the time if you do.
    Its the common that cannot be shared. Per the GFCI instruction manual:

    "This arc-fault detection device is not designed or intended for use on circuits in which the neutral conductor is shared with other circuits. The circuit breaker will nuisance trip in "shared neutral" circuits."

    Basically a GFCI compares the current flow between the hot and common legs of the circuit. If they differ then it trips. The idea being if the current is not flowing back to the breaker it is going somewhere else which is not a good thing. If the common is shared, then additional current from the shared device will flow back through the common and will cause the breaker to "nuisance trip".

    The ground should never carry any current.

    dave

    Edit:
    OK these guys explain it better than me:

    http://home.howstuffworks.com/question117.htm
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

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    Re: Pulling wire in conduit?

    Seems a solution is already done...For something this small I would of just bought a small transformer and had a circuit off the 220V run the 110V. Google 220V to 110v transformer, no wires to re-run. They are almost three times as much but you can even get one with an outlet already in it.

    http://www.nextag.com/220v-to-110v-tran ... 5503850FD8


    If you elect to pull new wires, it can be kinda tough with wires this big but you just tie together (interlock ground and put electrical tape around it) the new wire with the old. They make wire lube if you think its needed. As you pull the old one out the new is being fed through. No double wires needed to feed, no fishtape, no string, just help to work both ends.
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