5 boys and a grain bin...new AGP build DIY

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Just checking your thread for progress & had a few more thoughts so I figured I'd share them with you. I don't know enough about the grain bins strength & stability to be able to say one way or the other whether you need any additional support structure for it. Based on the pics someone linked, they look very very strong! Way tougher than your average poop wall. When I started shopping for a pool I was only able to get to a few places with displays (I live in the sticks lol) and I was really surprised at how weak some of the walls I felt seemed. An installer was setting up a display and I was asking about his opinions since he's been doing them for 25 years. He took his foot and tapped rather gently on the pool he was filling and it flopped in like Bologna lol so I was like ekkk! When I felt of it, it was so thin I thought how's that gonna hold water? So when I ordered my pool the main reason I got the one I did is buz of the corrugation of the wall. It feels much sturdier than the others I saw with little to no corrugation. Does that mean mine won't flap like a flag when I go to put it up? Nope, but I hope it doesn't lol

Anyway, all that is to say those grain bins look very capable but I had some thoughts on how you could provide a bit of structure with little effort & expense. If you were inclined to do so.

First find you some inexpensive replacement parts, I'd suggest the bottom rail/track with the vertical support plates (i think that's what they're called) to put your wall in. And the top stabilizer rails at the very least. Then you could use pressure treated 4x4/fence posts/whatever else that would perform the same kinda job to do uprights & the top rail. I know I'm suggesting wood & wood and water don't play nicely together so be sure to seal the heck outta any that you use. And probably still plan on replacing them once in awhile. That way you'd have all the basic support elements. That like I said, I'm not sure if you need when using grain bins lol I just think having a few uprights would be a good idea to stave off any catastrophic wall failure that could potentially happen if the wall couldn't support that much water weight, yikes that's alot of weight lol

Other than that, I think another posters suggestion of using cable to wrap it sounds like an excellent idea. Though I'd still want the bottom track & stabilizer rails just so you set your wall correctly.

I'm going to have to figure out the whole electrical thing to, so we're in the same boat there. I really don't want to hire an electrician I think there's only 2 in the whole county and they charge very high prices for the simplest of tasks so I'd prefer to do it myself lol

K I'll stop rambling now, best of luck. I hope the weather clears soon for you so you can continue. I've got the same problem here, the ground is almost a swamp from all the rain so I can't start digging yet. Bummer!
 
Just for perspective here, grain bins hold 100s of tons and the big ones 1000s of tons of grain, and grain runs like a fluid. The outward force at the bottom is massive.

I used to have a 10' high, 24' diameter water reservoir with 40,000 USgal, made a similar way, vinyl liner. At some point, in a few years, you'll see corrosion on the bolts, and will need to drain and replace them. If it were me, I'd ask a reservoir outfit what gauge their steel is, and if I remember right, it was the same as a grain bin. Definitely the same bolt pattern, and the reservoir was 1/2" or 5/8" galvanized carriage bolts.

That said, when you get 5 teenagers jumping off a truck into there, the dynamic force that Gwegan mentioned is massive. The top edge is going to flex, and it needs to be well protected as Kim mentioned. I bought that reservoir from a company that sells reservoirs, so the engineering had been done for the purpose. Anytime you use something for a purpose different from its intended purpose, caution is critical, so I'm really glad you're checking it out.

Bonding is mission critical also. Your electrician needs to look it up, learn it and agree it's important, or get a different sparky. Seriously, do it. It doesn't cost much, so there is zero reason not to do it right.

If you want to see some pool craziness (and a bit of teenager nostalgia, haha) google "youtube pool fail compilation" and you get a pretty good idea of what happens when you ain't lookin. Or maybe when you ARE lookin! ;)
 
Good luck and research research research everything.
 
Liquidator vs Stenner...I am so confused. I know I need something to keep my pool chlorinated when we're gone a few days to a week at a time. I have been reading and reading on here, and I'm back to being overwhelmed. It seemed like I saw owners of 35k gallons using liquidators, so how do they top out at 22k? Figuring out how to place either system in relation to my equipment is way over my head. If we had bought a resin AGP, I would have considered SWG. But that seems a little dumb when I am building my pool out of a steel grain bin and currently don't have even a top ledge planned (just coping at this point). At this rate, it seems easier to just hire my kids' friends to come and dump in bleach. Is there a thread anywhere that explains these three systems for dummies? It's still raining, so I might as well keep reading.
 
Pouring it in for a season wouldn't be that bad if you get the kids to own the job (which I think they will from building it). You'll know exactly what's happening with your chemistry, and if those kids are enjoying the pool as well, it's a reasonable ask. Also, you could use any option that adds chlorine, even if it wasn't the full amount, and then top up as needed. The lowest tech method I ever read on here was putting a carboy of chlorinating liquid on the bottom of the pool, open, and then go away. Not exactly recommended in case of a storm or a visitor jumping in without realizing, but just sayin there's quite a few options for absences, e.g. floaters with pucks as long as CYA is below target.
 
Thanks, Kim. I read those results and many others, and I just am not knowledgeable enough yet to understand it. Guess I will give up on the Liquidator or the Stenner for now and just stick with bleach. It worked well for us the past few summers in our 27' Intex. Maybe I can find friends to do it for us when we travel.

Needsajet, your post got me researching vacation tips and experiences, but I never did find one about opening a chlorine container on the floor of pool...do you know of a thread that contains that? Interesting idea... I do understand temporary puck use, starting absence at near shock level, etc. And my kids are definitely the pool maintainers around here. Mama pays the bills, they do the labor. :)

Next big question:

PUTTING THE PLUMBING OVER THE WALL INSTEAD OF THROUGH IT??

The only grain-bin pool owner I have been able to speak to said they invented a mount for the skimmer that was attached on the EXTERIOR wall of the bin/pool and then went up and over the wall to suspend the skimmer inside at water level. I couldn't get any additional information or photos. Has anyone ever heard of sending plumbing OVER the agp wall instead of through? Any clever innovators out there have ideas for how to get the water from skimmer up and over to the pump, or how to get it over and back into the pool from the filter? I assume PVC pipe would be better than hoses...how to keep a large crowd of rowdy swimmers from knocking into it? The advantages of this idea would be not having to cut a hole in the bin sheets (thick, deeply corrugated steel) and seal against leaks, as well as being able to totally dismantle skimmer in winter and put it away.

Any thoughts? Thanks everyone....Katie and the crew with the swampy yard
 
Here it is... slow and steady chlorination idea- first tests

It doesn't fit TFPC because of the likely unpredictability, hence not a recommended method. Nonetheless, a DIYer could test the method, collect results, and come up with a method that works for them. If I ever tried, I'd put rocks in the bottom of the jug to add to the chlorine weight.
 
This is a inside the pool skimmer

Intex Deluxe Wall Mount Surface Skimmer

You don't want one

I would get a normal skimmer and build up the area to get a flat wall section with fiberglass.

Or just mount a flat thick metal or plastic plate and cut your skimmer hole it that. Id do the same with the returns.

Oh And just to be clear a liquidator will work if you run the pump like 20 hours per day or it might work if you had high CYA
 

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have a welder or someone with a torch and cut out a 2 foot x 3 foot section and weld in a flat piece of steel with the skimmer size already cut out of the middle.. the middle of the skimmer would be water height
Amazon.com : Hayward SP1091WM Dyna-Skim Above-Ground Pool Skimmer Kit : Swimming Pool Skimmers : Patio, Lawn Garden

then have them cut 3, 4 inch x 4 inch pieces out with with a hole big enough to fit 1 suction side hose (used for a vacuum or suction side cleaner) and 2 returns using these these would be about 12 to 18 inches below the water suface
Amazon.com : Hayward SP1023G Vinyl Fiberglass Inlet Fittings for Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs : Swimming Pool Maintenance Kits : Patio, Lawn Garden

the steel would not need to be very thick but it would need to be a good weld :)
 
I think cowboy casey has the right idea, although you can also attach the steel panel with pop rivets and duct tape over the interior seam. The pool foam will help smooth out the edges under the liner. You would need a panel large enough for the skimmer and the return, since both need a flat surface for a good seal. I would use a stainless steel panel. This method is not much different than AGPs with a stainless steel service panel like this:
http://www.swimmingpool-discounters.com/products-page/50-off-close-out-pools/stainless-steel-service-panel/
 
SLOW CHLORINATION DIY...interesting thread, Needsajet, thanks for linking it! I definitely want to try the submerged jugs experiment someday down the road since we do travel a lot.

INTEX INSIDE SKIMMER...yes, I have one of these already from past pools...but the set-up that the grain bin pool owner described was a traditional, higher quality skimmer somehow suspended down from a plate mounted outside the wall and hard-plumbed to the equipment, and I am having trouble envisioning how to keep the apparatus safe from rough-housing crowds (my husband is a college president, and we entertain a lot of kids). My instinct is something like Kim's, yet I think the idea of no hole in my liner (36' expandable is not cheap) was nice, as well as the ability to remove the skimmer completely for the winter.

CUSTOM-CUTTING AND WELDING A PLATE...Casey, that's pretty much what one of my farming brothers proposed when I brought him a skimmer (I bought that same package you linked earlier this morning at a pool store just so I could show him what one looks like). Here's where I lose you though...why 3 extra holes? I anticipated only 1. Having used intex filter/vacuum products, I guess I need to learn what you mean by "suction side hose"...so I'll head back to pool school's visual dictionary again. Can you educate me about what 2 return jets do when there's only 1 skimmer? I actually asked the pool lady this morning if I might want extra returns spread around my pool (36' is big, it seems to me) to help with circulation, and she said that is only done on in-ground pools. Clearly, I have quite a bit to keep learning about plumbing. Thank you in advance for anything you can explain (btw, I read your build a few months ago when I started and a few weeks ago when I resumed...very cool).

And here's another question:

FIGURING PUMP SIZE (AND JACUZZI BRAND THOUGHTS??)...36' diameter, 32k gallons, equipment 30' away with PVC running underground. The one Casey linked for me above seemed pretty good to me. I let the local pool lady price some things to me this morning, because she's been very kind to me and is running a small, life-long business while widowed and raising grandkids now. I like to buy local and support honest folks in my community. But she seems adamant that 2-speed pumps are only for spas...a case of not teaching old dogs new tricks, I guess. I gave her the pump number, but she wasn't convinced and the price wasn't at all competitive with Amazon. However, if I buy a Jacuzzi-brand sand filter and pump from her, she offers a pretty appealing combo price with the sand and all the fittings and hoses and a nice sturdy base that would work well in my equipment location. The trick is that I'd have to take her single-speed pump. So, I'm wondering how to calculate what HP will actually be the minimum I need...does my size/distance necessitate enough extra that getting a 1hp would be a reasonable option? Or does everyone generally believe that 2-speed really is better so I should convince her to sell me a .75/1.5 or buy elsewhere? And does anyone love or hate the Jacuzzi brand equipment?

It's raining, it's pouring, late-night reading has me snoring...
 
Hey there just checking in on your thread and got to clicking around reading about chlorine dispensers & thought I'd share since i think you aren't going with the liquidator bcuz its only effective for up to 22k gals. Although it sounds like you've decided to just get someone to help when you are away. (That's what I'd do too :) ) I didn't do any serious research on either of these so forgive me if it's not what you're looking for but this 1st one caught my eye bcuz it can work for up to 150k gals. Then I found a thread & someone mentioned the other.
Rola-Chem Liquid Chlorine Pumps

New LMI Chemical Injection Metering Diaphragm Pump P742 358TI New | eBay
And the thread: Rola-Chem Tank Mounted System

Also before I shut up, I like Casey's plan for your skimmer & returns. Though I do feel you not wanting to cut a 36' expandable liner :( I would say to go ahead & do the over the wall skimmer & just explain to the kids that they can't horse play around it, they'll have tons of room in this massive AGP after all :D unfortunately I believe you have to cut your returns inside the wall no matter what, so you may as well cut in the skimmer. Also as large as your pool will be, I don't see a problem with you adding more than 1 return. From my research it increases circulation and that would only be a good thing. I believe the lady at the pool store is just going with the standard for an AG in her recommendation because that's just the way it's been done for forever. Somebody will have to correct me if I'm wrong, but the majority of the signatures (that I've read) around here detailing peoples IG's show less than 32k gallons so I think you could have as many returns as you like, it might actually be more beneficial to treat it a bit like an IG as far as planning for circulation goes.

Sorry for typing another novel, I'm very intrigued by you build! I hope to start digging for mine this weekend. Had hoped to have it up by now but my niece is sick & in the hospital so I've been staying there.

BTW I think you should give your pool a name. It's going to be so big I think it deserves one :)

Good luck!
 
Good morning :)

2 speed pumps will save you money any time you run them on low, they move half the water and use 1/3 of the power of high, so 90% of calculation will be done using low and then flip the switch to high when you need to vacuum or mix chem's or when you have 30 kids in there :) remember she is not paying your power bill...

Jacuzzi brand equipment is not bad or atleast was not bad, I have not heard the name lately except in spa's... if she will warranty everything for 3 years it may be worth the price to go with her.. I have a 1hp inground pump on my intex that works great (it is very efficient on power) so it will depend on the pump she is talking about, see if you can get the model number and size of the sand filter so we can see if it might work..

Suction side: not many people have them and they are not "required" but they do make life easy if you have one.. I run my "the poolcleaner" all the time and it runs around the bottom of the pool cleaning every day any time the pump is running, you can also use that port as a dedicated vacuum line (most use the skimmer)

the extra returns are great for a pool and the bigger the pool the more returns the better you are, I have 2 returns now and if I build a new pool I will have at least 4.. here is a picture when I was filling and you can see both returns and the suction side hose.. You can see I had the pump running because I was able to pull water from the bottom of the pool without the skimmer on, this also helps to lower the pool to winterize if needed.

Just think of this pool as an in ground pool, you will not take anything down or off the pool but you will winterize it.. the skimmer and returns will last 20 years outside, that is why you do not want intex type stuff, use quality equipment to last that won't have to be replaced every year or 2..

VluA1CKh.jpg

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Excuse this pic, it was not up to TFP standards as I just opened the pool this spring and this was taken an hour after opening
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Your also able to do things like this for the return and waterfalls made from pvc :)
FY7qXOdh.jpg


firstladykatie said:
SLOW CHLORINATION DIY...interesting thread, Needsajet, thanks for linking it! I definitely want to try the submerged jugs experiment someday down the road since we do travel a lot.

INTEX INSIDE SKIMMER...yes, I have one of these already from past pools...but the set-up that the grain bin pool owner described was a traditional, higher quality skimmer somehow suspended down from a plate mounted outside the wall and hard-plumbed to the equipment, and I am having trouble envisioning how to keep the apparatus safe from rough-housing crowds (my husband is a college president, and we entertain a lot of kids). My instinct is something like Kim's, yet I think the idea of no hole in my liner (36' expandable is not cheap) was nice, as well as the ability to remove the skimmer completely for the winter.

CUSTOM-CUTTING AND WELDING A PLATE...Casey, that's pretty much what one of my farming brothers proposed when I brought him a skimmer (I bought that same package you linked earlier this morning at a pool store just so I could show him what one looks like). Here's where I lose you though...why 3 extra holes? I anticipated only 1. Having used intex filter/vacuum products, I guess I need to learn what you mean by "suction side hose"...so I'll head back to pool school's visual dictionary again. Can you educate me about what 2 return jets do when there's only 1 skimmer? I actually asked the pool lady this morning if I might want extra returns spread around my pool (36' is big, it seems to me) to help with circulation, and she said that is only done on in-ground pools. Clearly, I have quite a bit to keep learning about plumbing. Thank you in advance for anything you can explain (btw, I read your build a few months ago when I started and a few weeks ago when I resumed...very cool).

And here's another question:

FIGURING PUMP SIZE (AND JACUZZI BRAND THOUGHTS??)...36' diameter, 32k gallons, equipment 30' away with PVC running underground. The one Casey linked for me above seemed pretty good to me. I let the local pool lady price some things to me this morning, because she's been very kind to me and is running a small, life-long business while widowed and raising grandkids now. I like to buy local and support honest folks in my community. But she seems adamant that 2-speed pumps are only for spas...a case of not teaching old dogs new tricks, I guess. I gave her the pump number, but she wasn't convinced and the price wasn't at all competitive with Amazon. However, if I buy a Jacuzzi-brand sand filter and pump from her, she offers a pretty appealing combo price with the sand and all the fittings and hoses and a nice sturdy base that would work well in my equipment location. The trick is that I'd have to take her single-speed pump. So, I'm wondering how to calculate what HP will actually be the minimum I need...does my size/distance necessitate enough extra that getting a 1hp would be a reasonable option? Or does everyone generally believe that 2-speed really is better so I should convince her to sell me a .75/1.5 or buy elsewhere? And does anyone love or hate the Jacuzzi brand equipment?

It's raining, it's pouring, late-night reading has me snoring...
Click to expand...
 
I think "Crater Lake" or "the Mediterranean" might be good names for my mammoth-but-hopefully-beautiful-clear-blue pool. :)

Thanks for the advice, links, and pics. Here's my dense question:

How do extra return jets NEXT TO EACH OTHER improve circulation (If I put two in a proposed steel panel with the skimmer)?

Casey, is the black elbow in the picture always in the water, or is that something you pop on and take off when you need it?
 
If you were able to put your own returns in I would do 1 on each side directly across from each other.. That piece now stays in all the time unless I put the waterfall in but it can be removed.. I like that it really gets the flow going around the pool like a whirlpool :)
 
Hi there ... i noticed no one has given you advice about going over the top with the pvc pipe.... i currently only have an 18' intex metal frame and immediately after buying it i realised that the intex sand filter and pump that it came with it was a disaster.... so i upgraded.. and as my knowledge also expanded (from the good people on this site) im now on my 3rd different size pump and 3rd different type of filter...
Anyhow... I have never been happy with the placement of the of the inlets or the returns... so i did an over the top pvc construction in the pool... all with 1 1/2 pipe... which now allows me 2 inlets which go to a 3 way valve, one of those inlets serves for a duel purpose... my skimmer attaches to it via a flexible pvc hose with 1 1/2 coupling on the the end so when i need to vacume i just slip it of and attatch the vacume via another 1 1/2 coupling all controled via the 3 way valve... and my return can be DIRECTED in any direction i want as the end is not glued in place...
I agree with Kim.. with only 1 return you do get a weak spot about 3 1/4 the way round where dust accumulates.
I suppose the point im making is that with an over the top configuration you are not restricted on how many inlets or returns you want...and if your still not happy you can add more without cutting holes in liners.
I have 3 older teenage boys and they go nuts in the pool and I've never had a problem with them banging into the pipes... hope this helps..

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
 

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