Is My pump too much for my filter/pool?

[danbutter]

Hello all. I hope this is the right place to post...I picked here because my suspicion is the equipment, but not sure.
I am hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction here as I am having issues with my pool.
This is only my second season with the pool since we bought this house so I am rather new to all of this stuff.
I have a IG vinyl that I have estimated to be about 25000 gal. We had an old sta-rite 24inch sand filter and it was shooting sand into the pool. Since we didn't know how old it was and what exactly the issue was we decided to replace the filter rather than just try the laterals.
So a couple months ago we put in a 26inch pentair and filled it with zeobrite as per the recco from the pool store.
We have a 1.5HP pump and now the flow is much much higher than it was with the old 24" filter.
If there is much in the skimmer basket I can't even pull it out while the pump is on. Others I know with pools don't think this is normal.

So there is the background...now the issue.
I can't clear the water for anything. Chemicals are fine as tested by the pool store and myself.
The filter has been running for over a month and still won't clear. It is cloudy with fine particulate.
So I am beginning to wonder if the 1.5HP pump is too much for the 26" filter with zeobrite in it.
Is the force from the pump just pushing the fine stuff back into the pool? It runs @ around high teens to twenty PSI.

Any ideas?
Let me know if more information would help.

Thanks

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Welcome to the forum.

The pump/equipment gurus will be along shortly I'm sure, but in the meantime you should post a full set of test results, because "chemicals are fine" by the pool store means very little

You can put your pool and equipment info in your signature line - go to User Control Panel, then Profile, then Edit Signature.

Good luck, I hope it's an easy fix.

 

[JasonLion]

Yes, your pump is too large. But I doubt that is why the water is cloudy. A large pump means spending more on electricity than you otherwise would and can cause problems with the skimmer basket, as you describe, but otherwise should be alright. Ideally you should have either a 3/4 HP full rated pump, or a dual speed 1 HP full rated pump. The dual speed costs a little more, but it can save a substantial amount of electricity.

frustratedpoolmom has the right idea to solve the cloudiness problem. Post a full set of water test numbers and describe the water a little more, for example what color is is, and we should be able to figure out what is happening.

 

[frankthailand]

I think the pump could be too big, i had a whisperflow 1.5hp on the pentair ta 60 and had filtering problems, as soon as i put a 1 hp pump no more problems.

let's see if anyone else has any ideas.

happy swims Frank

 

[duraleigh]

Reaffirming what everyone above has said. While your pump is indeed too large, your water cloudiness problems almost surely due to some chemistry issues.......the majority of which will most likely be the lack of chlorine. A full set of test results will help us to help you get to the bottom of it.

 

[danbutter]

Well maybe I'm just showing my ignorance here, but I thought that particulate floating in the water had little to do with chemistry of the water.
That is what is causing the cloudy as you can see it in the water when light is shining in the pool.
I will post #'s tomorrow afternoon when I can get them.

Well more bad news... I went out shortly after posting this thread and tried (sigh, yes tried) to start the filter. Pump turns on, but nothing happens. Well not nothing...it turns on makes noise like it is running...it is vibrating, but no water at all is moving now.
My wife then told me that when the pump shut off today a huge amount of air came back through the skimmer basket and blew the lid off the skimmer and tossed the basket up and out. ?

Oye. This pool is starting to get on my nerves this year!

Is my pump bad? Clogged? I don't even know where to look, but now since I can't move the water I either have to spend some $$ to have the pool guys out to tell me I need a new pump or try to fix this one.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Your test results will tell us more - regarding the cloudiness.

Sounds like you have an air leak in the pump lines and your pump lost prime, which may be why you aren't getting any movement now. We'll help you get this figured out.

 

[danbutter]

Well After a couple days down the water is a mess with algae and I have started a thread specific to that, but my equip. issues remain so I will focus on that in this forum.

I did manage to get the pump going again...it had lost prime...I just couldn't tell from looking...the pump basket looked full of water...it wasn't.

So now my question is why do I keep getting this air pressure built up and how do I find out what is causing it?

I have tried to bleed the air off from the filter, but if I use that it just never stops spitting. I have left it open for an hour and flooded the area around my equip, but the air is still there. It did lessen after this, but the next day it was back coming out of the returns into the pool.

Any ideas?

 

[JasonLion]

From your description, you must have something on the suction side, that is letting quite a bit of air into the pipes. Various things can cause this, from the water level being too low allowing the skimmer to pull in air, to the pump strainer basket lid not being on properly or having a defective gasket, to a leak on the suction side of the plumbing.

 

[danbutter]

Well I have two skimmer baskets...one pulls like 99.5% and the other 0.5%...not sure why or if they can be adjusted or what, but the one that pulls hard has the water just low enough to let leaves into the skimmer so it isn't pulling air.
The pump strainer lid may not have a good enough seal, but that hasn't changed from last year and it physically looks good when inspected so even though it may leak a little it can't be all of my problem.
Plumbing is new in some places since the filter is new, but what can I do to test the joints? They all have the blue glue coming out a little bit at each joint.
What could I try to plug the joints that would be airtight? caulk or modeling clay, cling wrap???

After thinking about it for a min...there is one thing I need clarified...what do you mean by suction side of plumbing?
I would think anything from pool before you get to and right up to the pump, but not after the pump. Is this what you mean?

Thanks for putting me onto things to look for!

 

[duraleigh]

what do you mean by suction side of plumbing?
I would think anything from pool before you get to and right up to the pump, but not after the pump. Is this what you mean?

Dan, that's right. From the skimmer to the impellor is under low pressure or suction side.

Naturally everything after the impellor all the way back to the pool is the pressure side.

The pump strainer lid may not have a good enough seal, but that hasn't changed from last year and it physically looks good when inspected so even though it may leak a little it can't be all of my problem.

Well, if your pump won't prime, any small air leak is all that it takes.

If you close the bleed valve on the filter top and turn on the pump, I assume it will not prime still, correct? If so, then when you shut th pump off, does the air rush out back thru the skimmer like it did?

 

[waste]

Dan, welcome to TFP!!

You've got the right idea on what is considered the 'suction side' of the plumbing

Are you loosing any water from the pool when it's off? I'm concerned about the second skimmer having very low pull - there may be a valve that's ~ off for that one or an obstruction (or flap) covering it's suction port - please remove the basket and visually inspect the bottom of the skimmer.

There is an article in Pool School on leak detection - give that a read and try the 'usual suspects' and post back, I'll be happy to clarify anything that the article might have missed

I'm sorry to have taken so long to address this issue, but I've been SWAMPED at work and haven't been able to give my full attention to the computer - now that I've posted here, this is 'highlighted' so when I log on and I'll be sure to look at it and respond 8)

 

[danbutter]

I did get it to prime and it is working again.
Went to pool school and read the leak detection, but it seems to be all about water leaking out... not air leaking in.
I am not losing any water at all.
The second skimmer works fine if I plug the first one and have the main drain shut. Well...I haven't tried that this year yet, but it did last year.

At my equip I have two pipes coming up out of the ground.
One is the main drain and it has a valve on it the other is behind a "Y" of some sort as it is the two skimmers and there is no valve here.
Don't know if that matters, but thought I'd share anyway.

When I remove the skimmer baskets I see the hole back to the pump and something that looks like an inverted plug...it is about 1/2 inch square hole...this is the same for both skimmers. If we get any sun tomorrow I'll take a pic...its kinda hard to see down there and I know a pic won't turn out unless it is bright.

 

[JasonLion]

If there is an air leak on the suction side of the system that is above the pool water line, you would not be losing water and yet can still have air getting into the system. Finding a leak like this can be tedious. One approach is to listen closely to the pipes when the pump has just been turned off. You are looking for a hiss/gurgle noise of air coming into the pipe and allowing water to run out of the pipes.

Another approach is to spray the pipes with water, when you are getting the area with the air leak good and wet air will stop entering the system, which you should be able to see through the pump strainer basket lid.

Another approach is to spray any suspected pipes/joints with shaving cream. Any air leak will suck in the shaving cream.

But I would triple check the pump strainer basket lid before checking anything else.

 

[danbutter]

Well I am back to the point where I need to worry about my equipment again.
I did check the pump strainer basket lid. I took it off and took out the "O" ring and cleaned off both the ring and the lid which were both filthy.
It looks a whole lot better now, but to no avail...still a bunch of air getting sucked in.

Is there anything that can be added to the seal on the pump strainer basket lid?
I read somewhere...(not sure if it was on this site or not) about a silicone grease being put on this "O" ring? just doesn't seem like a great idea to get the grease all inside the filter. Anyone have any experience with that?
I will try to get out with some shaving cream tomorrow if it isn't raining.

My question is this though...even if I find a joint that is leaking...how would I seal it to prevent this from being an issue?

thanks

 

[HarryH3]

The grease you want to use is called Magic Lube. It isn't petroleum based and doesn't bother your pool. It's VERY sticky and should be used on most of the O-rings on your pool's equipment. The only place that I've found NOT to use it, is the O-ring on the Polaris fitting, where it attaches to the wall (if you have one). For some reason, Magic Lube makes it VERY difficult to remove the fitting.