What is the best Stain Preventative for Fiberglass pool?

[Guest]

Last year, I continuously battled copper stains. The ascorbic acid treatment worked, but the Metal Free or Sequestering Agents I used didn't seem to do much about keeping the stains away.

Basically, I think I have an unusually high copper problem due to an exchange heater that corroded and spilled lots of copper into the water.

I heard Jack's Magic was pretty good? Does anyone have any experience they can share with a product that works? I want to be VERY proactive about stains this year.

 

[Guest]

What color are your stains. Copper often does not respong to ascorbic acid but iron does. Were the stains yellow, orange, or brownish? Those are iron. In fiberglass pools copper stains are usually grey to bluish black.

You are right that Metal Free is not that effective, it is EDTA based, You want a sequesterant that is HEDP based (looik for DEDP, Phosphonic acid derivative, or phosphonates on the label). Jacks Magic, Proteam Metal Magic, GLB Sequa Sol are a few good ones.
Also keeping your CH levels up can help prevent staining, at least from my experiences with my own pool and my customers.
Posting a full set of test results would be helpful.

 

[Guest]

Wow. Really? My stains are definitely brownish, and my copper test kit shows high amounts of copper, both at the pool store and from my own testing. However, I haven't tested for iron, and you're right, the ascorbic acid did seem to struggle getting rid of all the stains. Looks like I probably have both iron and copper. My problem is that I cannot even do an accurate CH test because the metal taints the color of the samples, even when I follow the instructions on the Taylor manual by prepping it with five drops of titrant. It still doesn't show an accurate color due to the high metal.

I really appreciate the EDTA Based reocmmendation.

I just opened the pool two days ago, and the water is still cold, but here is what my numbers look like thus far.

CYA: 120 (my achilles heel these last two years - it was 200 last year!) That's why I switched to BBB.
FC: 7.5 (started out at .5, but it's holding steady for 24 hours at 7.5)
CC: 0
PH: 7.2 (Started out real low at 6.8, probably due to pool store used pucks to winterize) It's rising slowly but steadily.
TA: 70
CH: 200-300 (Very hard to tell because of the copper interfering with the test)
Temp: 69F (Using the heater just a little each day until I put on my new solar cover)

Should I have a TDS, Iron and Salt tester in my arsenel of test kits?

What color are your stains. Copper often does not respong to ascorbic acid but iron does. Were the stains yellow, orange, or brownish? Those are iron. In fiberglass pools copper stains are usually grey to bluish black.

You are right that Metal Free is not that effective, it is EDTA based, You want a sequesterant that is HEDP based (looik for DEDP, Phosphonic acid derivative, or phosphonates on the label). Jacks Magic, Proteam Metal Magic, GLB Sequa Sol are a few good ones.
Also keeping your CH levels up can help prevent staining, at least from my experiences with my own pool and my customers.
Posting a full set of test results would be helpful.

 

[Guest]

Should I have a TDS, Iron and Salt tester in my arsenel of test kits?

Don't need TDS....not really a valid test. Don't need salt unless you have a SWG and I didn't see one in your sig. Iron test might be uselul if you have well water or your fill water is known to contain iron. (Ditto for manganese in those parts of the country that have manganese problems.)

Problem with testing for metals is that once they plate out as stain the often are no longer in the water and can't be tested. If you do have metal ions in the water then weekly to monthly maintenance doses of a good sequesterant and keep tabs on your pH are going to be your primarly line of defense against staining.

Copper can produce a brown stain but for some reason it's more common on plaster. In fiberglass the black and blue oxidation states seem to be much more common.

 

[Guest]

I have a regular chlorine pool, but when using bleach doesn't that add salt?
Should I be concerned about TDS in salts?

When the stains first started appearing they were bluish - almost purple.
When the stains started coming back they appeared to be more brown and yellow.

Should I have a TDS, Iron and Salt tester in my arsenel of test kits?

Don't need TDS....not really a valid test. Don't need salt unless you have a SWG and I didn't see one in your sig. Iron test might be uselul if you have well water or your fill water is known to contain iron. (Ditto for manganese in those parts of the country that have manganese problems.)

Problem with testing for metals is that once they plate out as stain the often are no longer in the water and can't be tested. If you do have metal ions in the water then weekly to monthly maintenance doses of a good sequesterant and keep tabs on your pH are going to be your primarly line of defense against staining.

Copper can produce a brown stain but for some reason it's more common on plaster. In fiberglass the black and blue oxidation states seem to be much more common.

 

[Guest]

I have a regular chlorine pool, but when using bleach doesn't that add salt?
Should I be concerned about TDS in salts?
You should not be concerned about TDS at all. It's a bogus measuuement for the most part (and the only way to really measure it is with a conductivity meter and decent ones will set you back at least $100!) The sodium and chloride ions will not have an impact on your pool (if they did SWGs would not work, would they?)
When the stains first started appearing they were bluish - almost purple.
When the stains started coming back they appeared to be more brown and yellow.

Sounds like you might have both copper and iron in your water...this is not uncommon.

 

[Guest]

I may be lucky on the copper. Even though my copper is sky-high at .8, I am not seeing much in the way of stains that don't remove with the ascorbic acid. I am going to get an Iron test kit. Just curious what that will show.

Rob

I have a regular chlorine pool, but when using bleach doesn't that add salt?
Should I be concerned about TDS in salts?
You should not be concerned about TDS at all. It's a bogus measuuement for the most part (and the only way to really measure it is with a conductivity meter and decent ones will set you back at least $100!) The sodium and chloride ions will not have an impact on your pool (if they did SWGs would not work, would they?)
When the stains first started appearing they were bluish - almost purple.
When the stains started coming back they appeared to be more brown and yellow.

Sounds like you might have both copper and iron in your water...this is not uncommon.

 

[pappy]

by TDS, are you talking about total disolved solids? I was told by two different pool stores that 2300 tds was bad and needed to change out water...not so?