Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: NEWS ALERT! Calcium Keeps Vinyl Liner From Drying Out...

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Haughton, La
    Posts
    79

    NEWS ALERT! Calcium Keeps Vinyl Liner From Drying Out...

    ...at least that was the pool stores reasoning for instructing me to add some calcium to my vinyl lined AG pool.

    I took a sample today to get it tested to make sure my test kit was ok & that I was coming up with the righ numbers. Calcium was a little low & they wanted me to buy 10 pounds of calcium to bring it up. I told her if she could tell me what the calcium would do to help my pool I MAY buy some. She says, "The calcium keeps the liner from drying out." I asked her "Above or below the water line" but could not wait for an answer before laughing out loud in her face. The manager then got involved in arguing with me about it.

    WAHT A JOKE!
    27ft Above Ground Pool
    Sand filter

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    924
    Boy, I wish I could find this article I was reading yesterday, but it was claiming that calcium is all part of balancing water because it can help with your TA balance. Don't know if it's true. Maybe some of the chemical experts here know something of this.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Just be happy with your pool...

    Quote Originally Posted by bassadict69
    She says, "The calcium keeps the liner from drying out." I asked her "Above or below the water line" but could not wait for an answer before laughing out loud in her face. The manager then got involved in arguing with me about it.
    Don't get me wrong... I have no affinity for pool stores in general but...

    • Did you intend to purchase anything at the pool store or did you just want to take their time and use their equipment to verify your results?
      Why not take it easy on the poor minimum wage, seasonal employee who's doing just what she's being told?
      And above all... Why waste time arguing with the pool store people?


    A simple no thanks to the stuff you don't need would do. Retail (not just pool stores) is full of stores/people trying to sell you junk that you don't need.

    Cheers... Enjoy your pool
    26Kgal IG Vinyl liner
    Hayward 1HP Superpump
    Hayward Pro Grid 4800 DE Filter
    thepoolcleaner pressure side cleaner

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Haughton, La
    Posts
    79
    Well, lets see...I bought the pool from them, I buy all supplies from them, I was planning to buy some cal hypo tabs yesterday from them but they were out. At the beginning of this season I bout a pump & new vacuum hose from them. So yes, everything I buy from a pool store, I buy from them & have been dealing with them for the 5-6 years I have had my pool.

    Why should I take it easy on them? This employee wasn't seasonal, she has been with them for several years.

    Selling stuff that people do not need & trying to convince them that they need it is just plain WRONG! I sell parts for a living & would never think of selling someone something they do not need.
    27ft Above Ground Pool
    Sand filter

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    23
    The guy we hired to fix our pool equipment tells me the same thing. I didn't really respond either way since he wasn't trying to sell me anything. He claims the vinyl needs the calcium or it will become brittle over time.
    5,100 gallons, fiberglass, cartridge filters, suction side vacuum.

    Swimming pools.....the difference between **** and an Arizona summer.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bassadict69
    Selling stuff that people do not need & trying to convince them that they need it is just plain WRONG! I sell parts for a living & would never think of selling someone something they do not need.
    And they'll never change.... No sense in wasting your time. The best one can do is to educate neighbors/family/friends... Whenever someone I know is having pool water problems I offer to do a full test (usually they're using strips or a simple OTO test) then I recommend what they should be putting in their pool (raises some eyebrows initially but the quality of my water speaks for itself).
    26Kgal IG Vinyl liner
    Hayward 1HP Superpump
    Hayward Pro Grid 4800 DE Filter
    thepoolcleaner pressure side cleaner

  7. Back To Top    #7
    mikergibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Mt. Vernon, Illinois
    Posts
    34
    I was pool stored into buying calcium for my fiberglass pool because I was told that it would etch the fiberglass if I didn't have it in there. My calcium was zero and they sold me on buying a 20 pound bag..
    I agree, getting people to buy stuff they don't need is wrong and they need to be called on it once in a while
    JMHO

    Mike
    My Pool:
    12K gal Fiberglass. Pentair DE Filter, Aqua Logic SWG, GoldLine Controls, Kreepy Krauley pool cleaner, MiniMax 250 Heater, Pentair FiberWorks Fiber optic lighting, Pentair 1 1/2HP Pump, a new shiny TF100 test kit, a clear pool and 3 happy kids

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    924
    I think, though, anyone with pool heaters does need to keep a certain amount of calcium. I know some heater manufacturers will not honor the warranty unless you have kept your calcium and pH/TA in a particular range.
    Buggs

    14,000 gallon, in ground, plaster, free form, play pool.
    Sta-Rite Max-E-Glass with a 1.5 hp Emerson motor
    WaterCo Micron High Rate sand filter S750 490 lb, 4883 sq ft - using ZeoBest
    In floor Polaris cleaning system
    Blue Diamond robot for those after storm days when I can't wait overnight for the in floor to clean it.

  9. Back To Top    #9
    check out this post if you don't believe that low calcium can be corrosive http://troublefreepool.com/viewtopic.php?t=1278

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    San Rafael, CA USA
    Posts
    12,085
    It's not the low calcium that makes the water corrosive, but the chlorine itself. Remember that the residual chlorine they are using has no CYA so the disinfecting chlorine level, which determines how fast it oxidizes (corrodes), is VERY high -- about 20 times higher than found in pools. They add corrosion inhibitors to partly offset this and they raise the pH so it is above 7.0. Now they happen to use calcium hydroxide to raise the pH, but could have used sodium hydroxide instead -- they added it to raise pH, not to add calcium (though it does do that, too).

    In the water system where I live they do not add any corrosion inhibitors since they no longer use chlorine and instead use monochloramine as the residual. It lasts longer, does not form disinfection by-products, and is less corrosive (it's similar to having chlorine with CYA in terms of oxidation potential). The pH is set to around 8.0 which significantly reduces corrosion potential. The tap water has around 50 ppm Calcium Hardness and does not corrode pipes.

    Not having calcium in a pool is not going to corrode metal. It will, however, cause water to dissolve calcium carbonate from plaster/gunite/grout. In practice, almost any fill water is going to have at least a little calcium in it. It just won't be at saturation levels.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

  11. Back To Top    #11
    NWMNMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Waaay NW MN
    Posts
    1,582
    Quote Originally Posted by sunsoaker
    The guy we hired to fix our pool equipment tells me the same thing. I didn't really respond either way since he wasn't trying to sell me anything. He claims the vinyl needs the calcium or it will become brittle over time.
    No, vinyl needs WATER or it will become brittle over time. Lol
    18x33x52 Buttressfree Seaspray (Wilbar) AGP - 1.5hp Pentair Maxim w/22" Pentair Meteor Sand Filter, Aqua Rite SWG System, Biltmore Walk In Steps - 2/4x20 Solar Panel Setup - Doheny Jet Drive (RIP -Pool Rover Jr) - finally hard plumbed the whole darned thing -
    Beats Driving to the Lake!

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Shelley N's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    196
    Show me a vinyl liner over 7 years old that isn't a little brittle. It's the nature of the beast.

    I wonder if I add calcium to my deck will it stay fresh and new looking?! Could be the new miracle cure.
    Shelley
    Denver, CO

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    148
    I do believe that some calcium is needed for vinyl, but not for the calcium itself, rather to provide a way of making the water less aggressive (I prefer the term "aggressive" as opposed to "corrosive" to eliminate confusion with acidic). Suppose you had "perfect" water, with pH 7.5, TA 100, with water temp say 84ยบ F, but no calcium. That would be extremely aggressive water. What would that do to a vinyl liner? I have no idea. Would it be an irritant to bathers? I have no idea. So, just to be safe, I would add some calcium to make the water less aggressive. It's generally accepted that you can run a higher TA in vinyl. This is to offset the lower calcium. Having said all that, I have (and will continue to) let my calcium reduce itself over time via dilution .... but not completely.
    Poor Man's Pool
    Doughboy 18 ft round above ground
    7600 gal with center drain
    Pentair sand filter, 1 HP pump
    50 ppm borates
    "I know just enough to be dangerous"
    Pool Calc Ver 1.41 (Excel)

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887
    Many people run their vinyl liner pools with very low calcium and haven't had any problems. Water without any calcium will leach calcium out of any paster/concrete/grout/tile/pebble surface in constant contact with the water. As long as you don't have any of those you will be fine. A typical vinyl liner pool is just fine without any calcium.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    71
    What about acrylic. Is calcium an issue with acrylic spas?
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia.
    Pool: 15,000 gallon 32'x18', 3'-6' deep in-ground gunite pool, Sta-Rite 3 125 GPM 2-filter cartrige, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite pump, solar heater, Goldline SWG, Jandy controls, opaque automatic CoverStar solar pool cover, 3 waterfalls (not from spa).
    Spa: 485 gallon in-ground square acrylic over fiberglass suspended over gunite Sunset brand spa, isolated system, natural gas heater, 2-speed (4hp/11hp) main pump, 3hp booster pump, chlorine sanitized.

    To my pool store owner, nothing is more important than my pool and my money.

    Richard's PoolEquations Spreadsheet

  16. Back To Top    #16
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,887
    I don't believe there is clear evidence either way for acrylic or fiberglass. I imgaine they will be fine and there isn't any quick damage the way there can be on a plaster pool, but I haven't heard of any serious long term testing. Someone else might know.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Guest
    There is some eveidence that calcium is needed for fiberglass to prevent cobalt leaching from the gelcoat and causing cobalt staining but it is very sketchy. The exact level of calcium needed has not been determined to the best of my knowledge and there is conflicting info from different fiberglass manufacturers.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •