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Thread: Flow issues for a new user.

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Flow issues for a new user.

    Hi Folks

    I was trouble shooting my issue and found a link to this awesome forum.

    I am a relative neophyte in the world of pools as this is only my 3rd season. I am learning and certainly willing to get into the nitty gritty.

    I recently opened my pool and discovered I have 0 flow while on filtration. It never gets started. I can see the water leaving the return line and entering the chlorinator. http://www.clearwater-usa.com/pdf/LM_du ... 112002.pdf (shows the chlorinator)

    The water just kind of ebbs and flows in there but nothing comes out the return jet. I have great backwash and waste flow. No issue there.

    So for a break down of what I have done.

    - Ensured the water was above the skimmer.
    - Checked for any obstructions in the skimmer or the feed to the pump (nothing here and my backwash/waste flow is great)
    -Removed the pump and checked the lint and hair basket, impeller, pump housing for any broken things or obstructions. Nothing was found.
    - Removed return line completely and flushed it out with a hose to see if there was anything obstructing it. Nothing was found.
    - Removed and returned the sight glass - Nothing odd.
    - Removed the waste line and added fresh teflon tape and put it back nice and snug.
    - Disconnected the chlorinator, made sure the connections were air tight and there were no obstructions.
    - Basically I have checked every joint from the skimmer to the return jet and made sure things were were snug and leak proof. All looks good. I know that air can get sucked in but I see nothing indicating that and I get zero flow.

    I ran the backwash for over 5 minutes and then a rinse for 30-45 seconds (nice clear sight glass) and the flow is really good.

    I turn back to filtration and nothing. Recirculate does nothing either. Same thing, the chlorinator starts to fill but never does and nothing gets fired through the return. There is an air space in the chlorinator that every other time gets filled with the air being forced out the return jet.

    I really am not sure what is causing this. If it was clogged filter media would recirculate not skip that?

    I am at a loss as to why I have no flow on filtration or recirculate but backwash and waste work fine.

    Thanks for your time and any suggestions you may have.

    Greg

    Edit - Sorry forgot to mention, the entire system is only 3 years old.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Welcome to TFP!

    What about pressure readings?

    I hate to ask, but are you sure the hoses are connected to the right ports? You wouldn't be the first to hook them backwards.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
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  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Welcome to TFP!

    Are there any valves on the return lines? If so, is it possible that one or more of them are closed? Another place to look is the return jets in the pool. Have the winterizing plugs been removed from the returns?
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Hi folks

    Thanks for the replies.

    The pressure reads about 18psi and resets to 0 when it is off. I think the gauge is ok. I ensured the hoses are correct. Hard to mess up on this setup. No doubt a simple gotcha like that can mess a guy up.

    I have one valve that is from the skimmer just before the pump. I disconnected that and made sure that it flows. Plus I get great backwash and waste flow so that is certainly open.

    I removed the eyeball vent (not sure if that is the proper term) from the jet on both sides of the pool. I removed the line from the return jet to the pump and flush with water from the hose. I don't think there is any obstruction there.

    It seems to be having an issue at the filter but when I choose recirculate that should be skipping the filter correct?

    Thanks again for the replies and the welcome to TFP. Looks like an awesome site.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    The recirculate position skips the filter entirely.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    The recirculate position skips the filter entirely.
    Yes that was my assumption. Good to confirm.

    It is suspicious why the flow for backwash is perfect but recirculate is not. Would any kind of air/vacuum leak in the return line give me grief or would it just leak? I ask as everything before the filter seems to be working just fine.

    Maybe an obstruction in the filter valve? Waste, backwash and rinse work as expected with proper flow though. I might have to check for an obstruction on the return pipe before the chlorinator. I only really checked after the chlorinater to the pool. I think I may have overlooked a section.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    I checked the other lines and and the filter valve, I can't find any obstructions anywhere. The pool place said they think it is the gasket under the filter valve. I removed that and looked at the gasket and it certainly doesn't look trashed but it could be iffy and allow air to be drawn in.

    I am going to replace it anyway since I have it out.

    Anyone else ever had an issue with a gasket similar to this?

    Thanks for your time.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    When you say no flow, does that mean you feel no water coming out of the return?

    Also, what is the model # of the pump?

    Only the SP2910 seems to have low enough max head which would match the 18 PSI with no flow rate.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    When you say no flow, does that mean you feel no water coming out of the return?

    Also, what is the model # of the pump?

    Only the SP2910 seems to have low enough max head which would match the 18 PSI with no flow rate.
    Wow, well done. That is the model I have. And yes when I say no flow that is what I mean zero output from the return jet. I listened near the filter head and I could hear a hiss noise when in filtration and recirculate mode. I also paid closer attention to the backwash hose and noticed it would fill and shrink, fill and shrink. Not a constant flow. I was only looking at the output and while at first it seemed strong, it was not consistent.

    Do you feel the gasket could be causing this grief?

    Thanks for your input.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  10. Back To Top    #10
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Would seem unlikely that a gasket could stop flow completely but anything is possible. The restriction is probably between the chlorinator and filter.

    Also, do you have a check valve right after the filter? It could be stuck closed. Otherwise double check the valve settings.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    There is one valve and that is on the line from the skimmer to the pump.

    The one thing that the filtration and recirculation settings have to contend with is the air pocket in the chlorinator. I check the line from the chlorinator to the filter and there are no obstructions.

    I guess it could be having a hard time forcing that air out of the chlorinator. I did notice as well some water in my backwash hose that is usually sucked flat. Not the same amount as if it was on backwash but noticeable. I wonder if it it is trying to move that air, can't do it so it gets forced elsewhere.

    I think I need to change the gasket and see what happens. The pool store seems fairly confident on that and it is a low price item so it is worth checking.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  12. Back To Top    #12
    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    I can't see a gasket causing the problem you are having. 18psi is your pump trying to push water into a dead stop. You should get 18psi with the multiport set to "Closed" or a winterizing plug in the return. I can't imagine an O-ring being able to seal your lines like that.

    The first thing I'd try is disconnecting the hose from the outlet of the filter to see if water can get through the filter at all.
    TFP Moderator
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    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

  13. Back To Top    #13
    New2Me's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    You are turning the pump off before moving the multi-port valve, aren't you? Trying to move it with pressure on it could keep it from rotating, and/or damage the gasket. Good luck!
    22 x 40 IG vinyl lined, 23,570 gal.
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Yes I am shutting the pump off every time before switching settings.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Ok I replaced the gasket and I still have the issue.

    However I think I know what it is. I tore the line apart from chlorinator to the return jet and I looked down and apparently being blind, I have a check valve that I totally missed. How I have no idea.

    This has to be blocking the flow. I turned the pump on with this disconnected and got a ton of flow. This valve is apparently busted. It is kind of odd though.

    It can only be hooked up one way so that is not the issue. It is a spring check valve but i don't see how it even works. There is a rubber stopper that pushes up against the string if the flow was reversed but the water going in the right direction looks like it would push the stopper closed.

    Water does not seem to pass this point. I am assuming this could fail and stay shut thus not allowing the passage of water. How it failed and how it works by looking at it is beyond me right now.

    It is the last thing in line before the return and I have good flow up to that point. It has to be it as far as I can see.

    Anyone else have issues with these failing and staying shut?
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    I'm not a big fan of spring check valves because the spring causes a lot of head loss and it can rust which is probably why it failed. A swing check valve is much lower in head loss and rarely will fail closed. The downside is that you have to pay attention to orientation when installing.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump and Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, 1/2 HP 2sp pump, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    This has to be oriented vertically so I am assuming that is why it was originally chosen.

    It seems odd that the arrow on the valve points in the right direction, down, but the spring and stopper are also facing down and it takes upward pressure to move the spring back. I can't see how downward flow would open the valve. It would seem it would push it closed. I don't fully understand how this valve works though.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Re: Flow issues for a new user.

    Wow this is embarrassing and I am sorry for wasting your time.

    The check valve is the culprit. When I took it apart last year the end of the valve actually came of and I loaded it back in wrong. I had the valve in my hand and was looking at the online diagram for it.

    http://www.prahervalves.com/pdf%20pool/ ... yellow.pdf

    And it just didn't make sense I thought it was a sealed unit. I popped the end off reversed it to the correct way and now feel great relief as well as great stupidity. Do'h.

    Sorry folks but I do appreciate the time and effort in trouble shooting.
    27' Above ground salt water pool. Hayward Ultramax pump, Hayward Pro ST10T2 filter, Zodiac LM Chlorinator.

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