Hayward pH & ORP probes: Sense & Dispense vs. CAT2000/4000

[VinceL]

Hayward offers their series of CATx000 commercial systems for monitoring pH and ORP. The probes used for these systems look just like the probes used in the residential sense & dispense system. A pair of replacement probes for the residential sense & dispense costs almost as much as an entire new sense & dispense system. I can get probes for the commercial CATx000 system for less than the price of the GLX probes for the sense & dispense.

You know what they say about a deal that seems too good to be true. So I have ask if there is there someone (in the business?) on the forum who can verify whether both systems use the same probes?

 

[Casey]

I can't answer but maybe someone will know.

 

[ahawk5082]

I am wondering the same thing. I have a Wwatermatic D-1 with a C2000 controller. The probes are approx $200 each. I just bought probes from Test Equipment Depot: Milwaukee MA913B/3 Combined Epoxy pH Electrode & Milwaukee MA923B3 ORP Probe with 3 Meter Cable. Both have BNC connectors and were approx $40 each. They are made for pools according to the Test Equip Depot. I am going to install them this weekend. We will see if/how they work.

 

[lovemyazpool]

You might want to check into Atlas Scientific. Their probes that I use are around $70~ each.

 

[right.mind]

I am wondering the same thing. I have a Wwatermatic D-1 with a C2000 controller. The probes are approx $200 each. I just bought probes from Test Equipment Depot: Milwaukee MA913B/3 Combined Epoxy pH Electrode & Milwaukee MA923B3 ORP Probe with 3 Meter Cable. Both have BNC connectors and were approx $40 each. They are made for pools according to the Test Equip Depot. I am going to install them this weekend. We will see if/how they work.

This is an old thread, but it was the closest archived posting I could find that addresses my question. I hope the original posters are still active and others find it useful . . .
I have a new inground concrete pool with all new Hayward equipment including an OmniLogic control panel. The blank ORP, pH, and Balance gauges on the OmniLogic display really bug me. I've read here that the Hayward Sense&Dispense system is problematic, so I'm not considering installing one of those. However, it would be great if I could install some inexpensive probes to activate the sense function and get accurate, at-a-glance readings on the ORP/pH/Balance gauges.
So here's my question: Do the Milwaukee probes mentioned above work with the OmniLogic control panel. If so, where would the probes be installed? From the pictures I've seen on the internet, they look too long to install in any of the currently connected 1.5" PVC plumbing. However, with only pictures to go by and no real frame of reference, I can't be sure.

 

[VinceL]

This is an old thread, but it was the closest archived posting I could find that addresses my question. I hope the original posters are still active and others find it useful . . .
I have a new inground concrete pool with all new Hayward equipment including an OmniLogic control panel. The blank ORP, pH, and Balance gauges on the OmniLogic display really bug me. I've read here that the Hayward Sense&Dispense system is problematic, so I'm not considering installing one of those. However, it would be great if I could install some inexpensive probes to activate the sense function and get accurate, at-a-glance readings on the ORP/pH/Balance gauges.
So here's my question: Do the Milwaukee probes mentioned above work with the OmniLogic control panel. If so, where would the probes be installed? From the pictures I've seen on the internet, they look too long to install in any of the currently connected 1.5" PVC plumbing. However, with only pictures to go by and no real frame of reference, I can't be sure.

I am the original poster.

I would disagree with your comment that the Hayward Sense & Dispense is problematic. It's just that the replacement probes are so expensive...which is why I started this thread.

My pool (with Sense & Dispense connected to the Pro Logic) was installed in 2012. My experience with the pH probe has been excellent. I did replace it in 2016 as it seemed to be getting a bit wonky. Other than that issue in 2016, the pH sensor has been dead-on accurate. When I test the pH, my results are never more than about .1 away from what the probe is reading. The Sense & Dispense controls a Stenner pump with a tank of 50/50 water/muriatic acid to keep the pH from rising. I clean the probes when I install them in the Spring and once during the Summer.

ORP seems like witchcraft to me. There are so many factors that affect it that I'm not comfortable having the SWCG be automatically controlled by the Sense & Dispense. So, I do a Time% for running the SWCG. The ORP probe is the original from 2012. I use it as a general guideline for the FC level in the pool. If the ORP value starts dropping, I do an FC test to see if maybe I need to up the % on SWCG.

So, overall, I give the pH portion of the Sense & Dispense high marks. The ORP portion is of less value to me.

I'm still hoping to find less expensive replacement probes.

 

[right.mind]

I am the original poster.

I would disagree with your comment that the Hayward Sense & Dispense is problematic. It's just that the replacement probes are so expensive...which is why I started this thread.

My pool (with Sense & Dispense connected to the Pro Logic) was installed in 2012. My experience with the pH probe has been excellent. I did replace it in 2016 as it seemed to be getting a bit wonky. Other than that issue in 2016, the pH sensor has been dead-on accurate. When I test the pH, my results are never more than about .1 away from what the probe is reading. The Sense & Dispense controls a Stenner pump with a tank of 50/50 water/muriatic acid to keep the pH from rising. I clean the probes when I install them in the Spring and once during the Summer.

ORP seems like witchcraft to me. There are so many factors that affect it that I'm not comfortable having the SWCG be automatically controlled by the Sense & Dispense. So, I do a Time% for running the SWCG. The ORP probe is the original from 2012. I use it as a general guideline for the FC level in the pool. If the ORP value starts dropping, I do an FC test to see if maybe I need to up the % on SWCG.

So, overall, I give the pH portion of the Sense & Dispense high marks. The ORP portion is of less value to me.

I'm still hoping to find less expensive replacement probes.

Hi Vince L,
Glad to see you're still posting.
Also glad to hear the Sense and Dispense system isn't as bad as I thought.
If you don't mind another question: When you switched-out the pH probe in 2016, did you use a Hayward replacement probe (GLX), one of the commercial probes (from the CATx000 commercial systems), or one of the Milwaukee probes mentioned by ahawk5082?
Basically, I'm looking for an inexpensive way to send data to the OmniLogic controller so that the ORP, pH, and Balance gauges provide accurate data. Seems to me that, once I have the data, I can add the chemicals myself to obtain the desired water quality. However, I have no idea if there is hardware/software in the Sense and Dispense equipment that is required to make the gauges display or if the probes can stand on their own for that purpose.
Starting from scratch (knowledge-wise) and looking for whatever info I can gather on this.

 

[VinceL]

Hi Vince L,
Glad to see you're still posting.
Also glad to hear the Sense and Dispense system isn't as bad as I thought.
If you don't mind another question: When you switched-out the pH probe in 2016, did you use a Hayward replacement probe (GLX), one of the commercial probes (from the CATx000 commercial systems), or one of the Milwaukee probes mentioned by ahawk5082?
Basically, I'm looking for an inexpensive way to send data to the OmniLogic controller so that the ORP, pH, and Balance gauges provide accurate data. Seems to me that, once I have the data, I can add the chemicals myself to obtain the desired water quality. However, I have no idea if there is hardware/software in the Sense and Dispense equipment that is required to make the gauges display or if the probes can stand on their own for that purpose.
Starting from scratch (knowledge-wise) and looking for whatever info I can gather on this.

Since I have been unable to get any authoritative feedback about an alternative to the GLX probes, I broke down and spent the money on a GLX probe.

The probes connect to BNC connectors in the Sense & Dispense module, and the module then has a cable that connects to the Pro Logic (in my case) or whatever other Hayward controllers it supports. I suspect there is some circuitry inside the Sense & Dispense module that is needed to communicate with a controller. So, I would be surprised if you could connect a probe directly to an OmniLogic. But, I'm not an electrical engineer so don't rely on my opinion.

The Hayward support team is in Clemmons, NC just west of Winston-Salem. Maybe if you showed up at their office you could get someone to talk to you. I've thought about doing that myself.

 

[right.mind]

. . .
The probes connect to BNC connectors in the Sense & Dispense module, and the module then has a cable that connects to the Pro Logic (in my case) or whatever other Hayward controllers it supports. I suspect there is some circuitry inside the Sense & Dispense module that is needed to communicate with a controller. So, I would be surprised if you could connect a probe directly to an OmniLogic. But, I'm not an electrical engineer so don't rely on my opinion.
. . .

I was afraid of something like that. Since I really don't want to pay for a dispense capability that I don't intend to use, I guess I'll just have to be on the lookout for a used S&D system with operational sense capability to interface with the OmniLogic control panel. Shouldn't be hard to find, right (lol)?

. . .
The Hayward support team is in Clemmons, NC just west of Winston-Salem. Maybe if you showed up at their office you could get someone to talk to you. I've thought about doing that myself.

Only about 2.5hrs away from me. Good to know, thanks!