Hayward H400 H400IDPL A0 error code

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WDVinAZ

WDVinAZ

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May 4, 2016
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Hi, I have A0 error code I am trying to clear.
Heater was starting intermittently with multiple restarts.
Blower would come on but it would not ignite. After multiple restarts it would ignite.
Now the blower does not even come on. It just moves from normal "L0" to "A0".
I have had a service call and the service tech indicated that the Combustion Blower is "one" of the problems.
I balked at the $450 part charge for blower plus service fee without much confidence that is the only problem.
I have since found and followed the Troubleshooting guide.
I don't know how to test the pressure switches but tubes are clear and if I blow/suck them I can hear membrane movement.
I pulled the blower and it spins freely. I checked the run capacitor and it was bad so I replaced it but it did not fix it.
I checked the capacitance and although out-of-spec, it does not seem to be "substantially" out of spec although I done know what substantial is. Spec says Black-White should be 30-45 ohms, I measure 44. Spec says Red-White should be 90-130, I measure 74.
I did simple bench test applying 120V to each and motor spins for both, faster for the lower resistance.
So I put it aside and moved to pole test on IC Board. After pulling the power harness from board and jumping the safety switch I stared the flow to initiate call for heat. I measure no voltage across L1 and IND LO which is an indicator of a bad control module.
So that is problem #3 so far.
This is H400IDPL (Propane model of H400IDL) installed in March of 2002 so it definitely not an after 2004 model although it does not have serial number in current format that gives manufacture date.
I can't find the appropriate Integrated Control Board anywhere with search.

Thanks for bearing with this!
So if you got all that, I have a few questions:
(1) is blower substantially out-of-spec and needs replacement? IDLBWR1930 240V
(2) any suggestions on finding Control Module
(3) does anyone know the difference between H400IDL and H400IDL2

any other suggestions?
 
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Buy a new heater and it'll solve all your problems with the old unit. Considering the parts that you suspect and know are bad, your $$ is high for repair.

Did you replace the air switch yet?

This is an old obsolete unit. It was a horrible design when they put it out as is the newer ones. Yes If you've seen me posts on these in this forum I do not speak highly of Hayward at all. However their ED2 units were a work horse and were great.

You can find some part on eBay and here Pool Heaters Hayward H-Series Induced Draft
 
Thanks for your insight.
I have not replaced anything yet as I don't want to invest a lot then still have a 14 year old unit that I can't find parts for.
Are you referring to the Vent Pressure Switch and the Blower Vacuum Switch?
Any suggestions on how I can jump around them to first see if they are likely candidates for replacement?
 
Well it has been a while but I have not given up.
I tried to fix the control board by replacing a relay that seemed to be bad. That did not go so well.
I have purchased a control board (IDXLCPA1930) and installed it.
It seems to work but now, on call for heat, the blower starts on low speed. After about 30-40 seconds (manual says 40 seconds), blower changes to high speed and gas ignites (Green LED comes on, exhaust is hot) but then after a few seconds it returns to low speed(Green LED goes out, exhaust is cold). I'm thinking a faulty flame sensor but if the flame sensor is good, what else might it be?
Thanks.
 
You should get an error code on the display. Something like IF for ignition failure.

That unit should also have a Integrated Control Board as well if I'm not mistaken.
 
Yes, new control board is showing error IF along with L0. L0 is normal while waiting for call for heat.
I have confirmed the symptoms as described in my previous post.
Additionally, I can see a glow in the combustion chamber through the view port so I assume that is the electronic igniter and it is working.
I also cleaned the flame sensor with steel wool. Same symptoms exist. Any suggestions?
 
Just for the record, the new control board is registering a IF error and the original A0 error code is not present.
Also, the symptoms seem to be related to the ignition so I am working that angle.
I found a few more tests directed at the flame sensor so I decided to try them before ordering a new flame sensor.
(1) FS should show continuity across metal shaft and wire contact. It did not after cleaning with steel wool so I took emory cloth to the shaft until continuity was good.
I thought this would fix it but nothing, same symptoms. (2) there should be 90V across FS shaft and metal at base of flame. I don't know for sure because I couldn't get to the flame base but there was 74V across shaft and everything else I could touch with the probe. (3) Flame sensor should deliver some micro amps to the control board. I don't know how many but my multimeter shows zero amps. So I ordered a Flame sensor for $28 and I will check for micro amps again when I get it. I'm thinking it could be that there is no flame on the burner that the FS is mated with but I can't see any of the flames so I don't know. I'm currently into this repair for $498 but that includes a new $70 Multimeter and avoids $450 for a blower that the Hayward service rep said I needed as "one" of my problems which seems to have been resolved with a $6 run capacitor. Thanks for the help. If I can get another year or two out of this unit for a reasonable repair cost it will be worth it. In the mean time, the only thing I am losing is the use of the SPA.
 
New FS came in today but still no fix. I'm seeing 0.1 - 0.3 uA from the FS. I did find on on another thread in this forum that I should see 3.0 - 5.0 uA. Also, after digging through some insulation I can see a flame in the burner chamber. Unit cycles through 3 times trying to light the burners then throws IF error code just like the Owner Manual says so I got to belive the Control board is working fine. I checked three orifices and brushed same three burner tubes from the inside. I'm going to take out the burner tubes and brush them off next.
 

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OK. I'm stuck. I took out all the burners and cleaned them off. Pretty much just dusted because that is all that was on them. All of them had slightly different burn markings but seemed fine. I swapped #5 with #8 just to do something different. Ignition still cycles three times then throws IF code as described. Either flame sensor when installed shows 0.1 - 0.3 uA. My best guess is that id I can get 3.0 - 5.0 uA out of the FS it would be fixed. But I don't know what to try next. Any suggestions would be appreciated at this point.
 
Any idea of your gas pressure reading? I'm guessing this is a natural gas unit? Do you have a regulator by the unit?

Here's what I was thinking. If propane, maybe you are very close to empty and the system builds the needed pressure to fire but nor enough to keep it going. Or that you have a bad regulator that is allowing only some gas to go thru it. Also if you have a clogged vent line on the regulator it can sometimes act like this.
 
It is Propane and I have recently had the tank filled back at the beginning of this problem when I was looking at the A0 error. But your suggestion does fit the symptoms and would explain the operation of both flame sensors. I'll take a look at the gas delivery next. I have found reference to several pressure tests but I must get my hands on a manometer first. Thanks, I'll be back.
 
Well I tried to rent a manometer but no luck there. While looking online for a reasonable deal I found a reference to DIY unit so I did that. Some flex tubing, gas nipple, backboard and water with food color did it. I did a Static test and load test on the inlet then a load test on outlet (manifold). Specs I found online said these test should yield WC measurements of 13, 9 and 8 for H400IDPL. My measurements were 12, 8, 7. Not quite the same magnitude but the relative differences are the same and show the expected operational characteristics. Nice to see the tests worked but now back to stuck since the propane delivery seems to be OK. Tech sheet I have says "If the approximate manifold pressure is acceptable, the heater problem is not likely related to gas supply. Instead, the problem is in either the ignition, combustion or flame sensor systems." I see the igniter glowing and flame at each of the burners. So it seems likely the flame sensor but now I have 2 flame sensors that do the same thing. They both measure 0.1 - 0.3 uA at flame ignition but then the burners shut off and the unit does the 3-try cycle until throwing IF error. I'm getting to the point of trying the same thing and expecting different results which gets me to insanity! Could it really be 2 bad flame sensors? I guess that is remotely possible but they act the same way so could there still be an underlying cause that is making a good flame sensor look bad? I would blame the control board but I'm measuring the little bit of current which I believe is way under spec. I have been expecting to measure 3.0 - 5.0 uA for a good FS reading. Is that really what it should be?
 
I received some spec data from my inquiry to Hayward TechSupport. The Control Board is expecting 6 uA from the Flame sensor and my manifold pressure of 7 WC may be low enough to cause some ignition issues and should be 8. I'm contemplating what to do next. (1) clean new FS with steel wool; (2) adjust Gas pressure up (3) buy another Flame Sensor.
 
But you have to question why you would need to adjust the gas pressure. Very rarely do I ever adjust the pressure on new or old systems. Also why would you need to clean the
"new" flame sensor?
 
I really don't want to mess with the gas pressure so given your concern about it also I will skip that even though Hayward TEchsupport suggested that. As far as cleaning the new FS, I figure no harm in that since I already own it. I bought it used, "like new" and it certainly looked unused when I got it but still.... I running out of things to do. I'm holding out on buying another FS even though they can be had for about $40. Does anyone have a working H400IDL/IDPL? Maybe I can send someone my FS and it can be checked in a running unit? If I started this troubleshooting again without knowing what I have already done but just using what I have learned it would lead directly to the flame sensor being bad.
 
I set up a bench test for the FS and it works as it is supposed to. I re-checked the Gas vale pressures and confirmed previous readings.
Since then I have found a Service Guide (http://www.haywardnet.com/pdfs/uhs-heater-troubleshooting-guide.pdf) and have completed all steps for error code IF (Page 44 and 58) except for the 5"/3" FS replacement.
I did get 2 FS when I purchased IDXLFS1930 so I can try using the longer one.
And I did call HAyward Support as the service guide suggested but support would not work with me because I am an equipment owner and not a Service Tech.
So I think I may have to make a service call to to proceed. Tech support did tell me that the fault is likely in the Safety Loop. I believe that to be from limit pole 1 on ICB through Water Pressure switch, Lo LImit temp, Hi limit Temp, Blower Vent pressure switch and back to limit pole 2 on ICB. I checked all continuity except for the Water Pressure Switch.

Pic_Manometer.jpg

Pic_Rectification.jpg
 
Finding a tech that would even have some of the parts for this might be an issue. Or, even finding one that will work on it. Most companies will come out and see the old thing and tell you to upgrade it with a new unit.

Lets step back a second, the units fan runs on high, then on low, ignitor glows, but gas does not ignite? If all of that happens, then I would have to say the safety loop is good. Even if the pressure switch were bad, it would never let the blower to even come on.
 

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