Advice needed on purchase decisions

[Envirogreen]

I need some advice.

I'm making some decisions on purchasing an unground pool. Its going to be quite small (10x20) and I have one builder suggesting variable speed pump (Pentair/Sta-Rite IntelliPro Variable Speed pump), and insisting that with a variable speed pump you need a venturi skimmer or else the skimmers will not work properly (Venturi skimmer for improved water surfaceskimming action and vacuum plate ).

The other builder doesn't think variable speed pump is needed (was suggesting the Hayward Tri-star), but will install the Tri-Star VS as he does agree it is more efficient and will save some ongoing money. However, he strongly recommends against the venturi skimmer as a waste of money, and not as good as what he is suggesting (Wide Mouth Skimmer and 3 Returns).

So I need some advice

1. Variable speed (VS) pump (IntelliPro or Tri-Star) vs Tri-Star. Seems like most people are recommending VS.
2. If I go with VS should I insist on a venturi skimmer or will the one recommended by builder 2 work fine?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: Variable Speed Pump - does it require a venturi skimmer

Variable speed pumps are great. I would highly recommend them even on a pool as small as you're planning on.

To the claim that a VSP requires a Venturi skimmer, that's totally bogus. I have a standard skimmer and VSP and it works just fine. Others can chime in if they have Venturi skimmers and if they like them, I have no experience with them.

Sounds like builder #2 is being the most honest with you.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Re: Variable Speed Pump - does it require a venturi skimmer

If you post the full build specs & quote, we'd be happy to look it over and see what else you might be missing...lots of experienced builders on this site.

 

[Envirogreen]

thank you both for your quick responses

I'd love input on the quotes from the two builders I'm looking at (already ruled out two other builders)

Here is the quote from Builder #1...total $45,507 plus premium coping ($5900) and winter safety cover ($3200) = $54,607

Consists of 14 gauge steel with galvanized coating. Both curvedand straight Rivet-Lock and Press-Lock panels are included inthe designed pool above.
All concrete bottoms consist of 2 stages:
1) A specially mixed Shotcrete base is applied to the floor.
2) A concrete/vermiculite mixture is applied as a top coat to theset shotcrete base with a trowel finish that provides a smoothsurface for the new vinyl liner.
Corner GREY thermoplastic basic steps.
All Pools are designed to meet the electrical groundingrequirements as specified in Section 68 of the Ontario ElectricalSafety Code. All pools in Ontario are to be inspected by theElectrical Safety Authority (ESA).
All plumbing will meet our hydraulic engineeringstandards and is subject to our thorough on-site inspection.Hydraulically balanced throughout, we use only the most reliablematerials including schedule 40 PVC piping through the steelshell and above grade at the equipment location, as well as PVCpiping below ground for the pool system. To further ensuretrouble-free performance, we use CPVC connections into andout of the pool heater (where needed) for heat dissipation.
One (1) Pentair/Sta-Rite, Top-Mount 24" High Rate Sand Filter.One (1) Pentair/Sta-Rite IntelliPro Variable Speed pump.
One (1) GREY Venturi skimmer for improved water surfaceskimming action and vacuum plate.
Two (2) GREY Inlets. Directionally-adjustable inlet fittings.
Two (2) GREY Main Drains. A special gravel pit is constructedunder the suction ports to allow for the relief of any hydrostaticwater pressure through our hydrostatic valve.
One (1) CL220 Hayward Automatic Chlorinator.



The premium pool maintenance package which we includeconsists of:
- One vacuum head
- One 8-16 ft. telescopic vacuum pole
- Vacuum hose- Leaf skimmer- Wall brush
- Thermometer- Test Strips
We will install a Under-Drain system, as required, torelieve and de-water the exterior of the pool shell when the poolis under construction and/or drained in the future. This safetydevice provides added protection and value to your pool.
The patented Snap-Lock tracking design ensures the liner islocked in the tracking for a secure, hassle-free fit. Double trackcover lock designed to securely hold a beaded winter cover inplace.
GREY
Premium 30 gauge vinyl liners designed to withstand our harshenvironment. These quality vinyl liners are computer designedand manufactured under strict Quality Control Procedures toensure an accurate fit. The vinyl liners are made of pure virginvinyl and are algae and "UV" sunlight resistant.
Winter package includes: winter plugs, winter tarp(s) forequipment, rope, foam rope as required and antifreeze.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($1,700.00) - One (1) Sta-RiteSM120 System 3 Cartridge Filter.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($1,000.00) - Upgrade to vinylcovered Corner steps.




Chemical starter kit.
Two (2) Pentair COLOURED GloBrite lights withcontroller, will make your pool look brighter,cleaner and more beautiful. The innovativedesign keeps light in the water turning your poolinto a shimmering, beautifully lit waterscape. Allunderground wiring for the pool light will be run inPVC conduit for safety and for ease ofmaintenance, if ever required. To equipmentlocation only - not connected to source.
Raypak Heater (266,000) BTU natural gas.
Heater will have the spark ignition system. (Gasconnection and electrical connection not included).
OPTION NOT INCLUDED ($950) One (1) Grey Option Package for Vinyl - includesgrey liner tracking, grey skimmer(s), grey maindrain(s) and grey return(s).
10" rough concrete application for stone coping.
Fitted Winter Cover - One (1) customized formfitting premium cover with Snap-Lock clip forsecuring winter cover (vinyl water bags are notrequired).
Precast Filter Slabs. Pad dimensions subject toequipment selected.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($1,995.00) - One (1)Clear O3 Ozone provides the cleanest, clearestwater for your pool (spa) with a significentreduction in chlorine use. Bubbles will be presentduring normal pool operation. To avoid bubbles, adegassing chamber is available at an installedcost of $1,595.00. NOTE: OPTION NOTINCLUDED.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($1,800.00) - In-wallsteps with grab rails.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($5,900.00) - NaturalStone Coping.
OPTION NOT INCLUDED - ($3,200.00) -Guaranteed protection - The Mesh Safety Coverwill protect your family and pets from harms way!Price addition may be required due to copingspecifications, raised walls, design or size of poolrequirements.





ITEM NOT INCLUDED - Electrical supply linefrom main house panel to pad/equipment locationand any trenching as required are not included.Any restoration/repairs to obstruction is an extrato the contract. Permit costs as applicable areincluded.



ITEMS NOT INCLUDED - Electrical Connection ofPool/Spa equipment at pad/equipment locationand connection of pump(s), heater, light(s) andrelated pool equipment ie: salt system, ozonesystem, auto cleaner pump are not included.Permits are an extra to the contract. The panel isincluded.
ITEM NOT INCLUDED - Gas installation frommeter location to pad/equipment location and anytrenching as required are not included. Permitcosts as applicable are an extra to the contract.
ITEM NOT INCLUDED - Gas line connection ofheater at pad/equipment location with steel lineonly to a maximum of 10' are not included. Permitcosts as applicable are an extra to the contract.
Geotechnical, Environmental and/or StructuralEngineering Services are available and maybecome necessary pending site conditions.Additional charges for excavation, haulage and/orsoil testing may be required. Quotations will beprepared as required for approval.
Basic 8' wide access excavation is included.
Environmental issues are the full and completefinancial responsibility of the Homeowner. TheMinistry of the Environment By-Law requires pre-construction bore holes samples and test resultsprepared for fill disposal. Haulage restrictions dueto time of year may add additional costs fordisposal. Contaminated soils/fill will be charged asan extra for disposal. Due to the limitation ofexcavation preparation, all related damage toexisting cable lines, sprinkler lines, phone lines,internet lines, communication lines, water lines,etc. is also the full and complete financialresponsibility of the Homeowner.
It is agreed and understood that water costs forfilling the pool are the responsibility of thehomeowner and these costs are not included inthe contract and are an extra to the contract.______________ initial

EXTENDED WARRANTY - OPTION NOTINCLUDED - ($2,995.00 + $389.35 HST=$3,384.35)



The Warranty Program extendscomprehensive coverage on your builtswimming pool. The original warranty hascoverage of two years on equipment and one yearon finishes. The Warranty Programextends the warranty coverage on both areas tofive years for added peace of mind AND we willDOUBLE your structural warranty for vinyl orconcrete pools from five to ten years!
PLUS receive the benefits of the Membership for five years: Preferred pricing on services and products – including hottubs, BBQs and all pool, hot tub and backyardaccessories from the Pool & Hot TubCentre. A comprehensive annual assessment ofyour pool and backyard – will be completedbetween April and October each year of yourHeritage program, commencing the year after thepool build. Allow the professionals to ensure yourbackyard resort is always the best it can be!





BUILDER #2 ($33,587) + Options $7396 - Pattern concrete deck ($3696) + 12" stone coping ($5,200) + Upgrade to variable speed pump (guessing $500) = $42,714


POOL INSTALLATION INCLUDES ALL MATERIAL AND LABOUR TO COMPLETELY INSTALL ALL OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS BELOW:

· Pool Excavation, Fill Removal and Disposal Fees (Based on Truck Access, Minimum 12’)		· Raypak 266,000 Btu Electronic Ignition Heater
· Galvanized Steel Panels, 5” Top and Bottom		· Stainless Steel 3-Step Ladder, Salt Grade
· Four-Piece Box Supports, approx. every 4’		· Deluxe Maintenance Equipment (Vac Pole,
· Panels and Box Supports cemented in place		Vac Head, Vac Hose, Test Kit, Etc.)
· Walk-In Stairs, 6’ White, cemented in place		· Hayward Automatic Chlorinator
· Drainage Sump Pit 8” Diameter		· Complete Starter Chemicals
· 1 ½ “ Tiger Flex Plumbing Lines, Max 50’		· Solar Blanket (Cut to Shape of Pool)
· Rigid PVC Plumbing for Equipment		· Overlap Winter Cover and Water Bags
· Wide Mouth Skimmer and 3 Returns		· 30 Or 40 Mil Liner
· Aluminum Double Track Coping		· Complete Instruction of Operation and
· HL6 ¾ Clear Gravel Backfill		Maintenance of Pool Equipment and
· Two Stage Concrete Bottom		Chemicals
· Hayward 24” Sand Filter		· Pool Permit – Application Only
· Hayward 1hp Super ll Pump		· Winterize Pool First Year
5 Year Pool Construction Warranty

Pool Quotation:	$32,587.00
Bobcat for Excavation	$1,000.00
TOTAL POOL LIGHTS: MULTI-COLOUR LED C/M REMOTE · Two light package $1,500.00 · Additional Lights $ 500.00/each PATTERN CONCRETE DECK PKG $3,696.00 · 3’ Around Pool Perimeter · 4 X 6 Equipment Pad · Gravel Sub Base · 10m Re Bar @ 16” O/C Grid · Stamped 4” Thick · Saw Cut Expansion Joints · 5 Year Concrete Deck Warranty LADDER CREDIT - In contract but not required -$200.00 HAYWARD TRI-STAR PUMP WITH PLUMBING UPGRADE $600.00 · .5 or .75 (18’ x 36’ or bigger) HP Energy Efficient · 2” Suction and Return Lines for Maximum Flow Rate · 70% Energy Cost Savings Over Single Speed Pool Pumps CORNER BENCH - SHALLOW END - Install instead of shallow end stairs due to pool size Included RECTANGLE SAFETY COVERS (STANDARD MESH) NOTE: New pool price includes credit for winter cover and water bags · 10’ x 20’ $1,800.00	$33,587.00

 

[Envirogreen]

One other question. What would be the difference in winter safety covers that one costs $1800 and the other is $3200?

 

[Envirogreen]

Also given the size of pool do I need to be concerned about temperature stratification?