Cartridge filter tank pressure too high, inconsistent water flow to valve module

[dducic]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and I hope someone can help me. Apologies in advance for the long post but my problem has a lot of moving parts (pun intended). I have an 11,500 in-ground pool in Phoenix, salt water system, cartridge filters. Let me describe what I've done recently and see if you have ideas as to what's wrong:

- My pool system had three leaf traps: the skimmer on the side of the pool, a leaf trap before the pump, and the leaf trap that's part of the pump/motor housing. The leaf trap before the pump (not the one that's part of the pump/motor housing) cracked and was leaking so I decided to remove it rather than replace it because I couldn't afford a new one at the time. The local Leslie's employee told me they usually remove those extra traps rather than replace them; his confidence gave me confidence to remove it, which I did. Now, where the leaf trap used to be, there is PVC pipe that connects the pump/motor housing to the rest of the system (and it's below the suction port of the pump).

- At the same time as the leaf trap failure, the gears in my 6-port module (which controls the popups) needed to be replaced, which I did. They spun freely with no obstructions.

- Everything worked fine for about a week until the motherboard on my 2hp motor fried. I replaced the motherboard and reinstalled the same motor. I also replaced all gaskets and the wiring harness (the old harness had cracked sheathing which may have contributed to the motherboard failure).

- At that point, everything worked fine again for a few days but then I noticed that the cartridge filter tank pressure, which normally runs between 20-22psi, shot up to 33-35psi and held firm at that higher pressure. I replaced the rest of the gaskets to be safe, and I even replaced my cartridge filters (it was time for new ones anyway) in the hopes this would solve the problem. No joy - the pressure is still 33-35psi but here's where it gets weird.

- I took everything apart, put it back together and turned the system back on. For 3-4 minutes the system was running at 20-22psi and the impeller in the 6-port module was merrily spinning along. After those first 3-4 minutes, I noticed that both the impeller stopped spinning in the 6-port module *and* the pressure in the filter tank jumped back up to 33-35psi - these happened simultaneously. I assume they are related but have no idea how... I thought the impeller stops spinning when pressure drops, not rises. I could be completely wrong.

- Oh, and I just noticed tonight that I have a drip coming from the 3-way valve that controls the water feature. Not sure if this affects anything described above but figured I'd give full disclosure on everything.

Does anyone know what's going on here? Is the removal of the leaf trap the cause for all my troubles or could it be something else? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[cowboycasey]

Welcome to the forum, I think we will be able to get you going.. Is there any way you can add some pictures so we can see what your dealing with..

I have not seen 6 port on a cartridge filter.. By changing things your pressure can go up or down depending on flow. Is there any algae in your pool that your dealing with, that can rise the pressure fast in a cartridge filter.

We will get you going, check out the links in my sig below to add pictures and check out pool school.

 

[Jimrahbe]

As cowboycasey said, we really need to see pictures of your equipment pad showing all the valves, etc..

As far as filter pressure.. it is a little counter intuitive... you'd think that the higher the pressure the more force the water would have, but the opposite is true. What the filter pressure gage is really telling you is the amount of resistance to water flow your filter has. So the higher the pressure the harder it is for water to flow through your filter and back to the pool. Every pool is different, but 20 PSI sounds high to me and 30 PSI sounds really high.

I assume your 6 port module is part of an in-floor cleaner system. If so, I suggest you shut if off for now and work on just the filtering system until it is working the way you want and then tackle the in-floor system.

But, without pictures, it is all just a guess.

Jim R.

 

[mas985]

Besides incorrect valve settings, a higher than normal filter pressure is indicative of an algae bloom.

- Everything worked fine for about a week until the motherboard on my 2hp motor fried. I replaced the motherboard and reinstalled the same motor. I also replaced all gaskets and the wiring harness (the old harness had cracked sheathing which may have contributed to the motherboard failure).

Are you talking about the VFD drive of a VS pump?

 

[dducic]

Ok, I've taken several pictures to make it easier for you. Please refer to the first message in this thread for all the details.

Here is the view of my entire system to give you a birds-eye view of all my equipment:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/032AL6

Here are some pics of the leaf trap next to the pump/motor housing that I removed:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/2855Eb
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/T6L0p3
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/32N6f8

Here is the 6-port module (which controls the popups) looks like - as mentioned above, the impeller in here slowed down simultaneously with the increase in pressure in the cartridge filter tank:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/aQ5i0s

Finally, here is the 3-way valve that controls the water feature, which recently sprung a leak:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/020qjp

Thanks in advance for your help!
~David

 

[Texas Splash]

So after seeing the pics and reading your problem about the 6-way impeller and rising filter pressure ..... my "guess" is that the 6-way is located after the filter, down-line from (after) the water feature valve correct? If so, then it would make sense that once that 6-way starts acting-up and stops moving, water pressure builds behind that back to the filter. That would explain the rising pressure and might also explain how the water feature valve eventually sprung a leak. Back-pressure from that 6-way. What do you think? Sounds great to me.

 

[dducic]

Yes, the 6-way is located downstream from the filter and the water feature valve.

That's very interesting and seems to make sense, but why is there back pressure from the 6-way? And how can I fix the problem? What should I do?

 

[proavia]

I agree with Pat (Texas Splash).

The leaf trap you removed looks to be from A&A Manufacturing. I'd guess the in-floor is by them too. Does the 6 port in-floor valve use the flapper valves or the balls? Double check that the gear set is installed correctly - and if the 6 port has the flapper valves, be sure they all open/close correctly. I think the impeller in the 6 port slows down because water isn't flowing through the mechanism correctly.

 

[dducic]

Hi Gene and Pat,

The 6-port in-floor value uses the flapper valves (t-valves), and yes I believe it is an A&A product. I opened the valve again tonight, pulled out the gear mechanism and noticed that the front pin on one of the t-valves had come out - it looks like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/141711080@N04/shares/11n78K

The other five look fine.

Obviously, I need to replace this t-valve, but is it possible all these problems I've been having stem from this one little flapper? Would one inoperable t-valve out of six be able to cause such a back pressure problem by itself?

 

[chiefwej]

I also have an A&A infloor system and as it cycles through the various zones the pressure rises and falls slightly depending on how many heads, the type of heads, plumbing, etc in each zone. So if one of the valves is sticking or stays closed that would cause a big pressure spike. Do you have side pool returns that bypass the floor cleaning system? If so, shut off the floor system and see what that does, if not pull the gear/valve pack out so that the return water flows through all the heads. That should return things to a lower pressure.

 

[proavia]

It is possible that the gear set is jamming because of the pin sticking out and that particular valve is not operating correctly. As chief said, the pressure rises and falls as the mechanism rotates through the valve positions. I think yours sticks between two valves and because neither valve is fully open, the pressure rises.

You may wish to call A&A directly and ask if there is an easy way to fix the valve pin issue. They're on Indian School and 37th Ave in Phoenix.

Or these guys (in Scottsdale)
AA Manufacturing Low Profile 6 Port Valve
Looks like they sell single T-valve clips. Be aware that they come in 2" and 1 1/2".

 

[dducic]

Well everyone, I have good news to share (I hope I'm not jinxing myself). I went to AZ Pool Supplies in Scottsdale today to get a replacement t-valve. I also decided to replace the cam below the gear plate assembly since it got nicked from the faulty t-valve. I reinstalled everything and it looks like we're back in business. My current psi is between 19-22 and everything seems to be working the way it should.

I can't thank all of you enough for lending your expertise and your knowledge. You saved me a boatload of money and I was able to get that feeling of satisfaction by resolving the issue. You guys are the best!!!

 

[Texas Splash]

Outstanding, and a shameless plug for AZ Pool Supplies for every one in the valley.

And perhaps keep us in mind if you decide to hang around for while. Maybe consider becoming a supporting member?

No pressure. We're just glad to help. Enjoy your weekend.

 

[proavia]

Excellent!

And once again, I agree with Pat.

Also, seriously consider getting yourself a good test kit. I'd recommend the TF-100 - TFTestkits.net
And get a Speedstir while you're at it from them as well. Both will be the best investment you make for you and your pool.

When you have a chance, read through Pool School here on the site. It will help you to understand the methodology taught here. I've been using the TFP way for a bit over a year now - and I can tell you, I spend a lot less time and money caring for my pool now.